10 replies to this topic

[Adolf von Liebenberg]

Hi everybody,

 

Not sure that this is the right place for this topic but I couldn't think of somewhere else.

 

I am responsible for the quality and food safety of poultry products in a poultry slaughterhouse.

 

Now there are some meat parameters that I would like to check on a regular basis.

For instance:

• Moisture/dry matter
• Colour
• Taste

 

Now these are my quesitions:

• How can I analyse these parameters? -> Dry matter I can measure with a drying oven, Colour: maybe compare a filet with DFD/PSE-meat, taste: bake a filet and do a tastepanel?
• Are there any other poultry quality indicators that I, myself, can do checks on? Mind you, I do not own any laboratory equipment.

 

Greetings

[Adolf von Liebenberg]

I wasnt able to find the edit button but maybe is the aw value (water activity) interesting too for poultry meat?

Why? Because with a high aw value there is more chance of releasing water in the packaging.

[Scampi]

I would also consider general organoleptic inspection in there so you can capture any "off" odours..............depending on what your using in the carcass washes and chill tanks (if using) they can produce a bit of an odour no one likes.....also PAA can turn the mucous membrane on the whole carcasses a really unpleasant shade of grey

 

Dry matter-----i'm guessing this is a value added product and not just a cut?

[Charles.C]

Hi everybody,

 

Not sure that this is the right place for this topic but I couldn't think of somewhere else.

 

I am responsible for the quality and food safety of poultry products in a poultry slaughterhouse.

 

Now there are some meat parameters that I would like to check on a regular basis.

For instance:

• Moisture/dry matter
• Colour
• Taste

 

Now these are my quesitions:

• How can I analyse these parameters? -> Dry matter I can measure with a drying oven, Colour: maybe compare a filet with DFD/PSE-meat, taste: bake a filet and do a tastepanel?
• Are there any other poultry quality indicators that I, myself, can do checks on? Mind you, I do not own any laboratory equipment.

 

Greetings

 

Internal QA procedures are  going to be quite difficult without a "lab"/equipment IMO.

 

I hope the function at least rates a "room".

[Adolf von Liebenberg]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies.

Internal QA procedures are  going to be quite difficult without a "lab"/equipment IMO.

 

I hope the function at least rates a "room".

Yes there is a room.

And (almost) everything is possible at least as it backs up the investment.

 

At this moment we don't do any quality controls on our endproduct, only temperature which is a food safety parameter.

 

I would also consider general organoleptic inspection in there so you can capture any "off" odours..............depending on what your using in the carcass washes and chill tanks (if using) they can produce a bit of an odour no one likes.....also PAA can turn the mucous membrane on the whole carcasses a really unpleasant shade of grey

 

Dry matter-----i'm guessing this is a value added product and not just a cut?

Organoleptic inspection is def a important one, but normally are the endproducts visual controlled by the operators. But maybe we should do this control too. 

We use a low concentrate of chloor water on the carcasses, that's it.

We dry cool them. We do, however, stun the alive poultry in water.

 

What do you mean with PAA? I googled it but couldn't find anything related to chicken.

And no we don't give any added value. We only slaughter and cut the chicken into filet, chicken legs, drumsticks, .. and then distribute.

 

Edit: dry moisture is maybe interesting to compare with competitors. This way we can see which one contains too much or too less moisture.

 

Thanks!

Edited by Adolf von Liebenberg, 27 March 2019 - 02:32 PM.

[Scampi]

Peracetic Acid (PAA) is an excellent antimicrobial agent. It destroys microbes and leaves no residue. As a result, PAA is used extensively in the Food & Beverage and Healthcare industries. Even though it is safe for consumers and patients, PAA can be dangerous to employees working with the chemical  (is very caustic at full strength)

 

 since these are just cuts, and not value added, why are you checking for dry matter? or are you using this as a measure of protein?  If so, you're wasting your time........each bird will be different as will each flock.....unless they are ALL on the same diet this # will change dramatically from grower to grower

 

 

Water bath stunning CAN give you blood spots on the breast in particular, so I would add that too...........

 

Personally, I would be much more concerned about product safety than quality............a raw cut is a raw cut is a raw cut

 

I'd be looking at 
A) investing in a gas stunner (will be the new norm very soon)

B) elimination of blood spots for water bath stunner

C) reduction of tears in skin from processing

D) reducing the time to cool (assuming by dry chill you mean blast chiller?)

 

But that's just my opinion

[Adolf von Liebenberg]

Peracetic Acid (PAA) is an excellent antimicrobial agent. It destroys microbes and leaves no residue. As a result, PAA is used extensively in the Food & Beverage and Healthcare industries. Even though it is safe for consumers and patients, PAA can be dangerous to employees working with the chemical  (is very caustic at full strength)

 

 since these are just cuts, and not value added, why are you checking for dry matter? or are you using this as a measure of protein?  If so, you're wasting your time........each bird will be different as will each flock.....unless they are ALL on the same diet this # will change dramatically from grower to grower

 

 

Water bath stunning CAN give you blood spots on the breast in particular, so I would add that too...........

 

Personally, I would be much more concerned about product safety than quality............a raw cut is a raw cut is a raw cut

 

I'd be looking at 
A) investing in a gas stunner (will be the new norm very soon)

B) elimination of blood spots for water bath stunner

C) reduction of tears in skin from processing

D) reducing the time to cool (assuming by dry chill you mean blast chiller?)

 

But that's just my opinion

I'm very thankful for your opinion.

 

First of all, our company is under the European law and I'm not sure if we're looking at the same destination as Canada (gas stunner being the new norm).

PAA seems to be banned by Europe at the moment.

 

I was checking for dry matter because sometimes we have trouble with moisture in our packaging.

I am interested if our chicken has more moisture then our competitors.

Still not helpful? You make a good point regarding the variety between all chickens.

 

Some chickens however are on the exact same diet, all natural food. Maybe they are more interesting to research or would I be wasting time here too?

 

Greetings

[Charles.C]

Hi AvL,

 

Before you start testing, I suggest you generate a "Specification". Actually I would have thought you would have one already ?

 

If not, maybe Scampi can help there as well. (not my area at all).

[Scampi]

Can you clarify exactly how your chilling please?  Purge in poultry does happen, but if your air chilling, that should be reduced significantly

 

It was my understanding the EU will be changing humane legislation to replace ALL existing water bath stunners with gas (maybe not retrofit, but new construction)

[Adolf von Liebenberg]

Can you clarify exactly how your chilling please?  Purge in poultry does happen, but if your air chilling, that should be reduced significantly

 

It was my understanding the EU will be changing humane legislation to replace ALL existing water bath stunners with gas (maybe not retrofit, but new construction)

 

Hi Scamp,

 

Chilling is done by dry air. 

 

At the moment department environment is pretty positive about our bath stunner process.

Are there some articles that support your assumption?

 

Greetings is positive aboutas

[Scampi]

This article will shed some good light on animal welfare concerns in water bath vs gas stunning......the single largest difference is that birds are stunned and then shackled and as a result, you've removed the welfare concerns that arise from shackling alive/alert birds.

https://efsa.onlinel....efsa.2018.5343

 

You will always get varying amounts of purge.............I personally think you're wasting your time on this one. Each bird is going to be a different temp prior to slaughter, each carcass is not the same size (within a range yes, but not the same), each bird has muscle mass that is distributed differently and on and on. As a result, you may be digging a research hole you'll never get out of

 

Have you done moisture retention tests on the carcasses prior to chilling?  So remove birds after evis but before wash and weigh them, tag them and reweigh post was and pre chill.......................you may find you're taking up more water than you thought. 

 

I would weigh the same birds again post chiller  and go from there. If you do this for a week with as many as you can manage, you should learn all you need to know about why/where the purge is coming from.  BUT you may also find you need to change line speed or # of carcass washes or direction of sprays in order to control water uptake

 

Is this regulated by the EU---water uptake I mean