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MahiMahi19

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Posted 17 September 2019 - 11:06 PM

Hello, 

Anybody work in seafood processing? if you do, is metal detection a CCP

Also, what brand of equipment do you use?

We're looking into purchasing a metal detector for fish fillets, and seem to be having issues with potential bidders meeting the sensitivity requirement for stainless steel? 

one of our customers is requesting a 2.5 mm for stainless steel. 



SafetyLine

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:23 AM

Hello, 

Anybody work in seafood processing? if you do, is metal detection a CCP

Also, what brand of equipment do you use?

We're looking into purchasing a metal detector for fish fillets, and seem to be having issues with potential bidders meeting the sensitivity requirement for stainless steel? 

one of our customers is requesting a 2.5 mm for stainless steel. 

 

 

Hi MahiMahi19

 

I'm not working in seafood processing, but in my short experience, you should do a risk assessment of each process step and do the decision tree of HACCP. But also, if you are working with equipment of metal or stainless steel is more likely that the presence of metal occur in your product.

 

I'm working in a Frozen product company and we used Mettler Toledo metal detector, they work very well and the same supplier provides training and maintenance of equipment.

 

if you no have any idea for which sensitivity you need to use, I recommend you follow the requirement of your consumers, obviously if your consumer isn't the final consumer otherwise you should do a risk assessment about that. FDA have information about foreign material, maybe it can help you.

 

Sorry for my writing English, I'm learning yet.

 

Good luck.

 

Kind regards.



Slab

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 12:38 AM

Hi, MahiMahi19;

 

Whether this hazard exist or not and what control strategies can be applied depends on your process. If processing is manual (fillet knives), and there is not a metal conveyor, then generally there is no hazard to likely occur. An alternative strategy per the Hazards Guidance (Ch. 20 attached) is to examine equipment for breakage and malfunctions.

 

As far as the sensitivity of detection it will depend on the aperture of your MD. Seafood being both wet and often treated with salts and other preservatives can increase product conductivity, and hence product signal noise and difficulties in a good phase-out. A 2.5 SS test is not unreasonable, however it will certainly play a key roll in designing a system. Any MD manufacturer worth their salt will know all of these variables and help you design a working system. A MD system required for a 6kg mahi fillet will certainly have difficulties meeting that sensitivity as opposed to a 130gm mackerel fillet.

 

We are using a Loma IQ4 Flex System for crab products with 2.0 Fe, 2.5 NonFe, 3.0 S/S 316

 

Attached File  Chapter 20 Metal Inclusion.pdf   1.95MB   43 downloads


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Charles.C

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:54 AM

Hello, 

Anybody work in seafood processing? if you do, is metal detection a CCP

Also, what brand of equipment do you use?

We're looking into purchasing a metal detector for fish fillets, and seem to be having issues with potential bidders meeting the sensitivity requirement for stainless steel? 

one of our customers is requesting a 2.5 mm for stainless steel. 

 

With respect to HACCP, you didn't mention if a FS Standard or Regulatory factors are also involved. It can matter.

 

SS has low magnetic properties so difficult to detect compared to ferrous, for example.

 

Here are some typical sensitivities -

 

Attached File  MD sensitivity.PNG   24.75KB   4 downloads


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


The Food Scientist

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 01:02 PM

I also started recently taking the seafood haccp course to implement a haccp plan for repacking dried ground and whole shrimp. What I will have to ask from our supplier is the processes they went through to produce it. for example if they grind the ground shrimp I am assuming it involved metal. So I would wanna count metal as a CCP.  So bottom line is that you have to look at your entire process to determine if it is a CCP and not just assume. Hope that helps!


Everything in food is science. The only subjective part is when you eat it. - Alton Brown.


MahiMahi19

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 03:46 PM

Hi MahiMahi19

 

I'm not working in seafood processing, but in my short experience, you should do a risk assessment of each process step and do the decision tree of HACCP. But also, if you are working with equipment of metal or stainless steel is more likely that the presence of metal occur in your product.

 

I'm working in a Frozen product company and we used Mettler Toledo metal detector, they work very well and the same supplier provides training and maintenance of equipment.

 

if you no have any idea for which sensitivity you need to use, I recommend you follow the requirement of your consumers, obviously if your consumer isn't the final consumer otherwise you should do a risk assessment about that. FDA have information about foreign material, maybe it can help you.

 

Sorry for my writing English, I'm learning yet.

 

Good luck.

 

Kind regards.

 Good morning SafetyLine

As part of our HACCP, our risk assessment determined that metal detection is a CCP, as we do manual filleting. So there's a possibility of metal fragments chipping or breaking off.

I'm in talks with Mettler Toledo but they're saying that meeting the 2.5 mm stainless steel requirement is not acquirable. They've recommended x -ray which comes at a higher cost.

 

Hi, MahiMahi19;

 

Whether this hazard exist or not and what control strategies can be applied depends on your process. If processing is manual (fillet knives), and there is not a metal conveyor, then generally there is no hazard to likely occur. An alternative strategy per the Hazards Guidance (Ch. 20 attached) is to examine equipment for breakage and malfunctions.

 

As far as the sensitivity of detection it will depend on the aperture of your MD. Seafood being both wet and often treated with salts and other preservatives can increase product conductivity, and hence product signal noise and difficulties in a good phase-out. A 2.5 SS test is not unreasonable, however it will certainly play a key roll in designing a system. Any MD manufacturer worth their salt will know all of these variables and help you design a working system. A MD system required for a 6kg mahi fillet will certainly have difficulties meeting that sensitivity as opposed to a 130gm mackerel fillet.

 

We are using a Loma IQ4 Flex System for crab products with 2.0 Fe, 2.5 NonFe, 3.0 S/S 316

 

attachicon.gif Chapter 20 Metal Inclusion.pdf

 

Good morning Slab, 

Our processing is manual, Thanks for the attachment, 

Most metal detector manufactures are having trouble meeting the sensitivity level for stainless steel during their sampling process (of my products - Fillets). 

I will look into Loma. 

With respect to HACCP, you didn't mention if a FS Standard or Regulatory factors are also involved. It can matter.

 

SS has low magnetic properties so difficult to detect compared to ferrous, for example.

 

Here are some typical sensitivities -

 

attachicon.gif MD sensitivity.PNG

 

Good morning Charles, 

Our HACCP was modified due to this customer requirement. For them, metal detection is a CCP, and stainless steel needs to be a 2.5 mm. 

If it helps, what I should've asked is " is anyone using a metal detector system in a cold environment, using a 2.5 mm SS sensitivity as their setting? And if so, who manufacturer that equipment?" I've reduced aperture height to tighten the space, but all the supplier I've reached out, don't see the 2.5 mm SS being met. 

 

I also started recently taking the seafood haccp course to implement a haccp plan for repacking dried ground and whole shrimp. What I will have to ask from our supplier is the processes they went through to produce it. for example if they grind the ground shrimp I am assuming it involved metal. So I would wanna count metal as a CCP.  So bottom line is that you have to look at your entire process to determine if it is a CCP and not just assume. Hope that helps!

 

Good morning FS, 

in our case, we are the supplier, so we have to meet this customer requirement. We've had a rental unit (metal detector) which meets the requirements but seems to be manufactured out of the country. Looking to purchase one, we are looking at our supplier within the US territory. Last resort would be to purchased one from out of the country (more risk in having a tech come out and work on if needed). 



Slab

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 04:52 PM

 Good morning SafetyLine

As part of our HACCP, our risk assessment determined that metal detection is a CCP, as we do manual filleting. So there's a possibility of metal fragments chipping or breaking off.

I'm in talks with Mettler Toledo but they're saying that meeting the 2.5 mm stainless steel requirement is not acquirable. They've recommended x -ray which comes at a higher cost.

 

 

Per hazards guidance (pg. 386):

Under ordinary circumstances, it would not be reasonably likely to expect that metal fragments could enter the food from the following sources:

Utensils used for manual blending, cutting, shucking, or gutting;
Metal processing tables or storage tanks.

 

 

It is extremely unreasonable for a customer to dictate what detection threshold standards a product and process can maintain. You should really push back on this. Just my 2 cents.


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"Some people freak out when they see small vertebra in their pasta" ~ Chef John


Eric G

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 07:20 PM

Have you sent any of your product to suppliers for testing?   I know that Fortress Technology will provide this service no charge. 



Charles.C

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 01:09 PM

 Good morning SafetyLine

As part of our HACCP, our risk assessment determined that metal detection is a CCP, as we do manual filleting. So there's a possibility of metal fragments chipping or breaking off.

I'm in talks with Mettler Toledo but they're saying that meeting the 2.5 mm stainless steel requirement is not acquirable. They've recommended x -ray which comes at a higher cost.

 

 

Good morning Slab, 

Our processing is manual, Thanks for the attachment, 

Most metal detector manufactures are having trouble meeting the sensitivity level for stainless steel during their sampling process (of my products - Fillets). 

I will look into Loma. 

 

Good morning Charles, 

Our HACCP was modified due to this customer requirement. For them, metal detection is a CCP, and stainless steel needs to be a 2.5 mm. 

If it helps, what I should've asked is " is anyone using a metal detector system in a cold environment, using a 2.5 mm SS sensitivity as their setting? And if so, who manufacturer that equipment?" I've reduced aperture height to tighten the space, but all the supplier I've reached out, don't see the 2.5 mm SS being met. 

 

 

Hi MahiMahi,

 

I have previously used a MD which IIRC consistently achieved 3 mm standard for 500g - 2kg frozen seafood net weights. (customer OK this level).

 

Here is Mettler data -

 

Attached File  mettler.PNG   26.68KB   4 downloads

 

What is yr MD aperture ? Product presentation ? Glazed ? Block ? IQF ? Thickness ?

 

Why did mettler say not possible ? Too thick ??


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


MahiMahi19

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 12:19 AM

Per hazards guidance (pg. 386):

 

It is extremely unreasonable for a customer to dictate what detection threshold standards a product and process can maintain. You should really push back on this. Just my 2 cents.

 

Hey Slab, I'm brought up my concerns but they have assured me that the suppliers who service them (in our field) have no problem meeting those levels. It's just the manufacturers that I've contacted that don't seem to find the levels being met. 

 

Have you sent any of your product to suppliers for testing?   I know that Fortress Technology will provide this service no charge. 

 

Hi Eric, I have and got results of 4.8, 4.5, I was informed of Fortress Tech, and have reached out to them. 

Hi MahiMahi,

 

I have previously used a MD which IIRC consistently achieved 3 mm standard for 500g - 2kg frozen seafood net weights. (customer OK this level).

 

Here is Mettler data -

 

attachicon.gif mettler.PNG

 

What is yr MD aperture ? Product presentation ? Glazed ? Block ? IQF ? Thickness ?

 

Why did mettler say not possible ? Too thick ??

 

Good afternoon Charles, 

The issue with that is that we run a fresh fillet, knowing frozen would help in achieving those levels. 

aperture is of 6 inches in height and 10 inches wide. Just a fresh fillet, nothing specials.

they said that based on it being a fresh fillet, getting those spec would not be possible and if it were a frozen fillet then yes. 



Charles.C

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 07:48 AM

Hey Slab, I'm brought up my concerns but they have assured me that the suppliers who service them (in our field) have no problem meeting those levels. It's just the manufacturers that I've contacted that don't seem to find the levels being met. 

 

 

Hi Eric, I have and got results of 4.8, 4.5, I was informed of Fortress Tech, and have reached out to them. 

 

Good afternoon Charles, 

The issue with that is that we run a fresh fillet, knowing frozen would help in achieving those levels. 

aperture is of 6 inches in height and 10 inches wide. Just a fresh fillet, nothing specials.

they said that based on it being a fresh fillet, getting those spec would not be possible and if it were a frozen fillet then yes. 

 

Hi Mahimahi,

 

^^^ Please refer to Posts 9, 4.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C






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