6 replies to this topic

[Tutan2]

I am having trouble with this issue. 

 

We manufacture ice cream and have a new customer who wishes to pack ice cream in containers that are too big to go through our X ray machine or metal detector and are made of metal. 

 

The new customer is a big contract therefore commercial suicide to turn down

 

We will request customer to sign waiver for FB Contaminants however my concern is how do we document in our internal systems to comply with requirements from HACCP as if we were audited and they picked this particular product to carry out traceblity it would be found that it didnt pass throught our last CCP and thus would be a HACCP failure.

 

Any ideas ? 

 

Thank you 

[Dr.Khan]

Hi Carmen 2

 

I suggest that you modify  your HACCP plan and do assign  the Metal Detection as CCP.  This will allow you to meet your customer requirements with out compromising your HACCP systems. To ensure that product remains metal free if possible pass your raw materials when making products for this customer.

 

Kind regards

Dr Humaid Khan

Managing Director

Halal International Services

Australia

[pHruit]

Part of your challenge here is that your customer can't indemnify you against your legal obligations - if you have a HACCP system as mandated by Regulation (EC) 852/2004, and as part of this you've determined that metal detection is a requirement and a CCP for your process, then I would imagine your due diligence position under the Food Safety Act will look very weak if you're knowingly skipping this step in effect for commercial reasons. The customer may have accepted some liability and thus be the party paying out the damages in a civil suit if anyone gets injured, but I don't see how this can protect your company from prosecution by a regulatory body.

If you're BRC certified I would also imagine you could get problems there too, as (rightly or wrongly) there is an expectation that metal detection should be used unless equivalent / more effect FB control is in place.

 

Can you not persuade the customer to use a pack format that can be metal-detected? Or explain the predicament and use that to structure a longer contract that can be used to fund the capex to put appropriate controls in place?

[Tutan2]

Part of your challenge here is that your customer can't indemnify you against your legal obligations - if you have a HACCP system as mandated by Regulation (EC) 852/2004, and as part of this you've determined that metal detection is a requirement and a CCP for your process, then I would imagine your due diligence position under the Food Safety Act will look very weak if you're knowingly skipping this step in effect for commercial reasons. The customer may have accepted some liability and thus be the party paying out the damages in a civil suit if anyone gets injured, but I don't see how this can protect your company from prosecution by a regulatory body.

If you're BRC certified I would also imagine you could get problems there too, as (rightly or wrongly) there is an expectation that metal detection should be used unless equivalent / more effect FB control is in place.

 

Can you not persuade the customer to use a pack format that can be metal-detected? Or explain the predicament and use that to structure a longer contract that can be used to fund the capex to put appropriate controls in place?

Thank you , I have advised the sales team that they need to sign a waiver. Fortunately for this customer (and myself) the Food Safety Act doesnt apply in the country i am in. But thank you for confirming what i thought. 

[GMO]

Which country are you exporting to?  Remember even if the incident occurs outside the UK, you are still in the UK so the Food Safety Act applies to you.

 

I'd say this is undermining your HACCP plan and there is a need to do different.  I'd suggest you look into metal detection or filtration in your process.  So for example, if you have filtration very close to the end point, that could be your foreign matter control.  Alternatively you could have some kind of throat metal detection I'm guessing?  It's more normally used for loose product rather than part frozen liquid but it's worth checking with some of the big suppliers to see if it can be done. 

 

In a former job, we used to export large cheeses which bypassed our packing room.  When I arrived at the company, I'd been working there for a couple of weeks and saw one of these cheeses.  I said to my manager "how is it metal detected?"  After going slightly white, the product was swiftly discontinued. 

 

There isn't a legal requirement for metal detection to be a CCP but with hindsight, would the company regret this?  Doesn't it undermine your due diligence?

 

Barrister "Child X choked on your ice cream after a metal nut was present.  I put it to you Tutan that you identified it as a CCP in your procedures, which for the lay person means you've identified it as critical, something which should never be bypassed, but are willing to bypass it for money.  Is that correct?"

[Ken Bookmyer]

I guess a screen would depend on the size of any inclusions in the ice cream. But if you don't have inclusions that would be my choice rather than skipping foreign material as a hazard. There are in line metal detectors that are also a possibility detect before filling is not perfect but it's a reasonable strategy. 

[Ryan M.]

Maybe it is a good time to get influence (large customer right?) to go to xray detection.  I've worked in companies in the past where a customer has mandated requirements and we have installed equipment like metal detectors, vision systems, etc with a contract with the customer for them to pick up part of the tab, of course a lot of other contingencies go into place.