34 replies to this topic

[kettlecorn]

I think it's worth bearing in mind that quite a few assumptions are probably being made due to limited information available, and also we are only hearing one side of the story. Who's to say that this QA Manager in question isn't posting on another forum asking if it's normal to be piled with so much office work by their director that they can rarely make time to leave the desk, and asking if it's normal for their QAs to ask so many questions.

 

I don't doubt that there's an issue here - especially if it is the case that the manager doesn't know a thing about the process - though I feel we need more information at this point to learn what the scenario is and perhaps reasons behind it, before making too many conclusions. 

 

Not to be redundant, but I just wanted to emphasize what zanorias said. It's hard to make sense of the exact situation here without more details, and, as we all know with hazard analysis, context matters. (For instance, when I started my current position, the company had no food safety plan or SOPs whatsoever, so I spent a lot of time in the office simply writing up paperwork--and now that I actually have a QA team, my boss has piled on additional duties, almost too numerous to mention, so my time on the floor is still limited). Even so, there is clearly an issue here, a managerial issue, but whether it is the fault of the QA manager or senior management is an open question. 

[kettlecorn]

And I should note that my post above was not meant in any way to deny the dysfunction the OP was expressing. I simply meant to say there are lots of ways QA managers can "manage" their team. Sometimes this means that the QA manager won't be on the production floor as much as they might like. A good QA manager should demonstrate, not just say, that they are working alongside the QA team and production, and they need to also push back, within reason, against additional duties that detract from their ultimate responsibility, because, really, they are the ones responsible.

 

The dysfunction the OP identifies is clearly a problem, but the problem may be, at least in the abstract, a bit higher up. 

Edited by kettlecorn, 15 November 2019 - 09:27 PM.

[Ryan M.]

If he doesn't understand the process and only on the floor during outside audits that's a definite problem.

 

However, if he does understand the process, but maybe not the current happenings, and people are effectively managing / handling food safety and quality then it is not a problem.  It is a mere frustration for you because of your perception of the him.

 

If the QA Manager is female please change pronouns as appropriate. :)

[mgourley]

QA managers, who never go out on the floor are not "managers", they are "functionaries".
That being said, it depends on what the QA manager is tasked with. The QA Manager at our facility does all of the nutritionals for three facilities. She also does labeling reviews for all three facilities. This necessitates a lot of time "in office".

This is why we have a QA Supervisor, whose job it is to be on the floor, monitoring the QA techs and taking care of the routine paper/electronic documentation that is generated on a daily basis.

 

My job title is "Sanitation Manager". Am I out on the floor all the time "managing" the sanitation team? No. That's why I have a "Sanitation Supervisor". I certainly spend time on the floor every day, but I have trained people so that I have no need to micro manage the sanitation department.

 

Every business is unique. 

But to the OP, if the QA Manager is never on the floor, you have a problem.

 

Marshall

[tablefulfads]

I don't think it's normal.

[Jewl578]

As a QA Manager with a company that went from 30 employees to 130 in the span of one year; along with major construction, I have to say, now that things have settled down, I am in my office 95% of the time trying to catch up after spending months working on the floor alongside line workers, teaching, training and working the lines myself.

I now have 8 QC Technicians and 2 QC Supervisors. They know darn well I'm playing catch up since I wear many other hats as do most QA Managers.

I depend on them to come to me and they do went absolutely needed. 

I make "rounds" once a day and talk to everyone. I come in early and stay late so I can talk to both shifts of QC people.

I have had the comments about spending all my time in the office and they wish they could have my job. 

They wouldn't last one month!

It's possible and it does happen, most people just don't realize all that comes with the job.

[CHRISTBEARER7]

I think there has to be a happy medium if they are only on the floor 10 minutes a year they are missing something because there needs to be some kind of Direct Observation and prove that what you are saying is what you are doing.

[Fred73]

I think it's worth bearing in mind that quite a few assumptions are probably being made due to limited information available, and also we are only hearing one side of the story. Who's to say that this QA Manager in question isn't posting on another forum asking if it's normal to be piled with so much office work by their director that they can rarely make time to leave the desk, and asking if it's normal for their QAs to ask so many questions.

 

I don't doubt that there's an issue here - especially if it is the case that the manager doesn't know a thing about the process - though I feel we need more information at this point to learn what the scenario is and perhaps reasons behind it, before making too many conclusions. 

Very interesting to read all the responses on this post, see the assumptions made depending on the work environment each person work or company structures. Today days QA managers are usually pileup up with desk tasks and relay more and more in QA techs, sups or shift managers in reporting issues to them, so his presence "in the floor" could varies depending in many factors, inclusive the size of the company/site.

I'm not a QA manager in any site but I oversee them in multiple buildings and walk with them every time I visit them, what I have seeing is what have been mentioned here, they stay in their offices most of the time because the desk tasks they are require to complete, BUT they must have a very clear knowledge of the way the site operate and what's going on on the floor, that's key in their roles.

So at the end as "zanaorias" (carots) mentioned there is a high probability that we have a different issues here, like the site is short personnel, lack of management commitment to food safety, etc, etc, that is why GFSI is pushing the new requirement of "Food Safety Culture", that was introduced already in BRC and it will come up as a requirement in GFSI next year. It will be very interesting to see how the sites comply with this requirement.

[Hoosiersmoker]

This forum is probably not a good place for this. His boss is though. Talk to his boss and maybe ask if there is anything you can help with to get him out of his office more. Maybe he's actually overwhelmed and needs help but doesn't want to admit it. Maybe he's a lazy POS that hasn't been caught yet. There's more than one potential cause for the time he spends in the office. And there's always more to the story than you usually get just from observation. I have been accused of being absent from the production floor in past positions. It is an issue until I am moved up and the person taking my place struggles for many many months trying to perform all of the duties I kept in balance for years. Most people didn't even know I was actually doing two jobs and filling in from time to time for another. Making your job look easy and not doing anything are two very different things. If you absolutely know exactly what that person's job entails you are absolutely qualified to render judgement but based on actual facts. If you do not know what his job entails I would be very careful if he has any authority over you. Some people are not as kind as I was when I fielded such accusations. My typical response was "Did the President of the company send you here on his behalf?" If they answer "no" my response was "Well, when HE tells me I'm not doing my job I will change, until then, you need to go do your job". If they ever answered "yes" I would go to the President and have a sit down with him directly and ask how he wanted me to change. No one ever said "yes" the President sent them. Our QM annoys me because I can never get a hold of him - He's almost NEVER in his office but he's alone on his shift. My advice would be to make sure you have all the FACTS before you proceed. But if you find out he's just lazy turn his a$$ in. You owe it to your company and it's probably making you job harder too! Good Luck.

[CMHeywood]

This is not normal, this is being lazy.