Jump to content

  • Quick Navigation
Photo

My upper management are wanting to fill disinfectants on my food line, how do I dissuade them?

Share this

  • You cannot start a new topic
  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic
- - - - -

lara_80

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 43 posts
  • 1 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 03 April 2020 - 02:43 AM

My upper management are wanting to fill disinfectants on my food line. I need some ammo to change their mind because I don't think I can change their mind. I could not find anything in the code to say this was not allowed. Help! 



SQFconsultant

    SQFconsultant

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 4,662 posts
  • 1139 thanks
1,132
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Just when I thought I was out - They pulled me back in!!!

Posted 03 April 2020 - 03:07 AM

My upper management are wanting to fill disinfectants on my food line. I need some ammo to change their mind because I don't think I can change their mind. I could not find anything in the code to say this was not allowed. Help! 

 

If I understand correctly, your senior managements wants to re-tool your food production line and make disinfectant products, assuming yes I proceed ----

 

They can do so, however you may run into SQF certification issues - so contact your CB, you may be opening up another sector and will need to change scope or exclude the process entirely from your scope/certification - lots to think about including clean room, sterile environments, purity testing, clearences etc.


All the Best,

 

All Rights Reserved,

Without Prejudice,

Glenn Oster.

Glenn Oster Consulting, LLC -

SQF System Development | Internal Auditor Training | eConsultant

Martha's Vineyard Island, MA - Restored Republic

http://www.GCEMVI.XYZ

http://www.GlennOster.com

 


Benjamin Bunting

    Grade - Active

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 16 posts
  • 3 thanks
3
Neutral

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mississippi, USA
  • Interests:Surfing, hunting, fishing, skydiving, anything outdoors.

Posted 03 April 2020 - 01:03 PM

If they are filling containers on the production floor next to product, then your programs and policies should give you the ammo you need to shut them down. If needs be the USDA or FDA might not be to happy to see that. I dont hesitate to let them know they are being watched, and now that they are informed, potentially knowingly negligent. 



Xoinks

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 50 posts
  • 12 thanks
9
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 03 April 2020 - 02:28 PM

I'm assuming they are considering using a liquid filling line to fill chemicals?  

 

I concur with contacting your CB - as anything run on an SQF line needs to be included under the scope (my understanding).   I will plead a bit of ignorance if I'm incorrect and major product categories can be added to the line without them being notifed, but that's been my understanding.  From the code:  

 

5.1 Changing the Scope of Certification When a site wishes to add food sector categories or new products to their scope of certification, the site may request the increased scope of certification in writing with the certification body.  

 

Where the scope change is a new process or a major change to an existing process, a new product line, or a significant change in personnel, raw materials, packing materials or ingredients, the certification body shall be advised in writing. Where the request is received within thirty (30) days prior to the re-certification audit window, the certification body may defer the scope extension to the next re-certification audit and shall advise the site.  No new certificate shall be issued until after a successful re-certification audit.

 

But that all said - your hazard analysis needs to account for other products and hazards run on the line.  So prior to moving forward, at minimum, a full FS Plan reassessment would need to be done.  As I'm guessing your expertise is not chemicals, it'd be wise to bring in a technical expert as well to figure out how to assure there is no residual risk from running the chemicals when you switch back back and forth between disinfectants and food product.  (Testing of rinse water at the end etc to check for chemical concentration, etc., switching out every gasket, etc.)

 

Situationally and pending the type of chemicals it MIGHT be feasible, however - even if it is, I really struggle to see it being a good idea.  To do it safely would require a significant amount of work up front, probably far more than would be worthwhile to try to get in on the short term demand for sanitizers.  This is all also all assuming there isn't something in the FDA code that strictly forbids running chemicals on the same line as food, i.e. not using food equipment for non-food items.  Not to mention the additional requirements that chemical producers have, OSHA considerations, etc.  

 

If the objective is not for sale but for use in the plant, then I'd pick an area away from any food, risk assess it, keep it off of equipment (or get dedicated equipment for it), and work within the FDA's guidelines for short term mixing of sanitizers in the plant.  https://www.fda.gov/...136118/download


Edited by Xoinks, 03 April 2020 - 02:29 PM.


Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5665 thanks
1,544
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 03 April 2020 - 02:37 PM

My upper management are wanting to fill disinfectants on my food line. I need some ammo to change their mind because I don't think I can change their mind. I could not find anything in the code to say this was not allowed. Help! 

 

Hi Laural,

 

It may help if you can clarify your OP ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


lara_80

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 43 posts
  • 1 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 03 April 2020 - 03:02 PM

This line is an aerosol fill line that only runs cooking oils. They are wanting to run disinfectant spray because of business needs.



lara_80

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 43 posts
  • 1 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 03 April 2020 - 03:04 PM

We have chemical lines but they are all running fully at this point.



Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5665 thanks
1,544
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:01 PM

Hi lara,

 

As I understand, the "stage" is "packing" of cooking oil.

 

 disinfectant = ?

 

The 2 processes are to be run alternately without "cleansing" or ?

 

Ofhand it sounds like a potential for adulteration.


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


MsMars

    Grade - PIFSQN

  • IFSQN Principal
  • 606 posts
  • 194 thanks
151
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female

Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:03 PM

Long story short is I don't see how you could possibly do this temporarily. Are they OK with potentially changing the line over in a more permanent fashion while in the process losing their SQF certifications and any money they have invested into their food safety program, in addition to completely re-purposing their equipment, people, and supplies?  Echoing what others have stated in regards to SQF changing of scope, FDA involvement, etc. 



Setanta

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,609 posts
  • 371 thanks
389
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:32 PM

Do you or upper management know if or how it may affect the actual product?  It you added a chlorine or alcohol to an oil, does it reduce the effectiveness of the oil?  (non-stick, cooking flavor, etc.)


-Setanta         

 

 

 


lara_80

    Grade - AIFSQN

  • IFSQN Associate
  • 43 posts
  • 1 thanks
0
Neutral

  • United States
    United States

Posted 03 April 2020 - 04:40 PM

They would not be running the disinfectant through the line, it would be toted in and I think if we could bring in a dedicated filler then just using the actual conveyor line should not cause an issue. As food would not be ran at the same time and the disinfectant would have a dedicated filler and tote so it would not get into the closed food (oil transport) lines.


Edited by lara_80, 03 April 2020 - 04:42 PM.


Ryan M.

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,329 posts
  • 479 thanks
290
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birmingham, AL
  • Interests:Reading, crosswords, passionate discussions, laughing at US politics.

Posted 03 April 2020 - 05:44 PM

As others have said contact your CB for input, but I honestly don't see the problem so long as you have adequate cleaning and sanitation between disinfectant to food products.  However, it is also dependent on the specific ingredients in the disinfectant so that needs to be assessed.



Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5665 thanks
1,544
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 03 April 2020 - 10:33 PM

As others have said contact your CB for input, but I honestly don't see the problem so long as you have adequate cleaning and sanitation between disinfectant to food products.  However, it is also dependent on the specific ingredients in the disinfectant so that needs to be assessed.

 

May depend on what the disinfectant is, chemically speaking, eg floor disinfectant ? (see Post 8).


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


Ryan M.

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,329 posts
  • 479 thanks
290
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Birmingham, AL
  • Interests:Reading, crosswords, passionate discussions, laughing at US politics.

Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:08 PM

May depend on what the disinfectant is, chemically speaking, eg floor disinfectant ? (see Post 8).

 

Maybe...but it really comes down to the cleanability of the equipment involved.  If the equipment is fully and easily cleanable I don't see why anything would be an issue?  You just have to make sure the disinfectant is cleaned out prior to running the food products.  The only issue I can see is if the disinfectant corrodes the equipment.

 

Most new food equipment has oils and lubricants on the surfaces from the manufacturing and you have to clean it before use and remove it all.  I imagine same type of deal / process...although, maybe I'm oversimplifying it?

 

Look people, we are in an unprecedented time.  Just because something isn't normal, and maybe requires more work from you, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.  People & companies need disinfectants right now, so step up to the plate and figure out how to make it happen without jeopardizing the safety of your products.  I'm sure you can find a way...get creative people.



Setanta

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Fellow
  • 1,609 posts
  • 371 thanks
389
Excellent

  • United States
    United States
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:Reading: historical fiction, fantasy, Sci-Fi
    Movies
    Gardening
    Birding

Posted 04 April 2020 - 12:27 PM

I guess I am understanding this as disinfecting the equipment as it runs. I am envisioning that the final product could contain some of the disinfectant. That's where my concern is. If you are cleaning the non-product contact areas of the equipment I don't see the importance.  (Other than the controls that the operators use.)


-Setanta         

 

 

 


Karenconstable

    Grade - MIFSQN

  • IFSQN Member
  • 90 posts
  • 38 thanks
11
Good

  • Australia
    Australia
  • Gender:Female

Posted 13 April 2020 - 11:56 PM

I'm with Ryan M on this. 

 

I am a food safety professional and have done work with disinfectant and lubricant manufacturers, including on aerosol lines.  

 

If the line is cleaned thoroughly after filling disinfectant, before re-commencing edible oil filling, there should be no problem. 

 

I think a well-documented risk assessment is called for.  The main risk I see is that the disinfectant or line-cleaning-agent could be carried over into the edible oil product.

 

To control the risk, (1) choose the line-cleaning and line-rinsing agents with care (2) clean, rinse and dry the line thoroughly before reintroducing edible oil to the line (3) discard the first part of the first run of edible oil when production re-commences (4) check organoleptic and chemical properties of the edible oil before shipping. 


Regards,

Karen Constable

 

Food Fraud Prevention (VACCP) Programs | Food Fraud Training |

Consulting | Advisory | Compliance

The Rotten Apple Newsletter

 


Charles.C

    Grade - FIFSQN

  • IFSQN Moderator
  • 20,542 posts
  • 5665 thanks
1,544
Excellent

  • Earth
    Earth
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:SF
    TV
    Movies

Posted 14 April 2020 - 10:22 PM

And we still don't know what the chemical is ?

 

Quats ?

 

Phenol ?


Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C




Share this

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users