5 replies to this topic

[Cherrypie68]

I am getting increasingly confused with verfication and validation.

I think the below is correct but coud do with someone confirming this

Verfication:

this is the action of checking that what we say we are doing

- we are in fact doing. i.e. the operator is checking the roasting temperature / per batch

according to the HACCP plan to ensure the processing temperatures are correct; and

recording the result.

the roasting temperature

required to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria, we would check or verify that the product was actually, reaching temperatures of <200^oC.

 

Validation

To validate the roasting temperatures specified, we refer to legislation, scientific journals or

other data that supports the roasting temperature we work to will prevent the growth

of harmful bacteria or micro analysis

 

Hope someone can put me straight

Many thanks

 

 

[Charles.C]

I am getting increasingly confused with verfication and validation.

I think the below is correct but coud do with someone confirming this

Verfication:

this is the action of checking that what we say we are doing

- we are in fact doing. i.e. the operator is checking the roasting temperature / per batch

according to the HACCP plan to ensure the processing temperatures are correct; and

recording the result.

the roasting temperature

required to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria, we would check or verify that the product was actually, reaching temperatures of <200^oC.

 

Validation

To validate the roasting temperatures specified, we refer to legislation, scientific journals or

other data that supports the roasting temperature we work to will prevent the growth

of harmful bacteria or micro analysis

 

Hope someone can put me straight

Many thanks

 

Hi charlotte,

 

The reality is that various interpretations of, particularly validation, exist. Including different GFSI-recognised Standards. So it may depend on the context of yr query.

 

I would opine that yr Validation interpretation is mostly aligned to Codex document attached below except I would anticipate that the roasting temperature/time is intended to provide a certain log reduction (eg 6D) of a given microbial species (eg Salmonella). The chronological aspect is also important (see the attachment).

 

Verification (as per yr interpretation) tends to be less argumentative albeit textually sometimes confused with Validation. Note the chronological difference to (codex) validation.

 

 Codex 2008 guidelines for validation of FS control measures.pdf   206.81KB   79 downloads

[Cherrypie68]

Thanks for the repsonse -

C :)

[Dakis]

I am getting increasingly confused with verfication and validation.

I think the below is correct but coud do with someone confirming this

Verfication:

this is the action of checking that what we say we are doing

- we are in fact doing. i.e. the operator is checking the roasting temperature / per batch

according to the HACCP plan to ensure the processing temperatures are correct; and

recording the result.

the roasting temperature

required to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria, we would check or verify that the product was actually, reaching temperatures of <200^oC.

 

Validation

To validate the roasting temperatures specified, we refer to legislation, scientific journals or

other data that supports the roasting temperature we work to will prevent the growth

of harmful bacteria or micro analysis

 

Hope someone can put me straight

Many thanks

 

Hey there,

 

You must clarify first what these two terms mean concerning a process

 

So, validation is the steps you take prior the process itself. 

Verification is the steps you take after the process in order to see if you comply with the standards you gave at first with validation. 

 

 

Let's say that you have an x-ray machine. You validate the process of tracing 1mm diametre foreign bodies (this can be done following the manufacturer instructions, for example). Then you collect data in order to verify the validation (For example you can mark some products carrying a 1mm foreign body inside them. If the x-ray machine does not miss any of them inside an entire lot, then this is a verification that the former validation is correct. Otherwise, if x-ray miss, then you have to find the cause and revalidate

 

This is what i think. Please anyone correct me if i am wrong

 

In the case of roasting temperature, validation is the scientific knowledge that defines the time/temperature fraction and verification is the laboratory results of specimens that have undergone the particular heat treatment at the particular time.

 

Sometimes, validation is a verification of some other process that is concerned to be scientificly validated

[Cherrypie68]

Hi

Yes I agree

Verify being the checks done daily eg: checking the cooking tempertaure is +70oc for x amount of time and the validation is the confirmation via a lab of no pathogenic growth: So validation comes first then you verify that your system is operating to within these parameters

 

Verification is an ongoing activity used to determine that the control measures have been implemented as intended. Verification occurs during or after operation of a control measure through a variety of activities, including observation of monitoring activities and review of records to confirm that implementation of control measures is according to design

 

Validation: The competent authority established the need for control measure(s) that achieve a specified log reduction in pathogenic Escherichia coli. The validation process indicated that industry could consistently achieve a specified log reduction through ensuring a specific decrease in pH during fermentation and a specific decrease in water activity during maturation, coupled with ensuring that the raw materials have less than a specified level of pathogenic E. coli based on statistically-based microbiological testing.

[Charles.C]

Hi Dakis,

 

Assuming that the OP query relates to Codex HACCP, there is perhaps some slight confusion in the above regarding validation/monitoring/verification. Note the word "observation" in previous Post.

 

I suggest a re-read of the attachment in Post 2.

Edited by Charles.C, 23 March 2021 - 09:20 PM.
edited