5 replies to this topic

[AcmeHACCP]

Hi all, I would appreciate guidance HACCP plan for ROP Pot Pies that are filled with fully cooked items such as chicken filling, beef filling and other fully cooked fillings which are filled into pot pie tins containing raw dough bottoms and tops and then blast frozen and then sealed in our Cryovac machine. I've created HACCP plans for smoked items, house brined Corned beef etc., but never one for fully cooked filled pies in ROP that need to be baked at home by consumers. Any guidance is greatly appreciated

 

[Charles.C]

HI all,

I would appreciate guidance HACCP plan for ROP Pot Pies that are filled with fully cooked items such as chicken filling, beef filling and other fully cooked fillings which are filled into pot pie tins containing raw dough bottoms and tops and then blast frozen and then sealed in our Cryovac machine.

I've created HACCP plans for smoked items, house brined Corned beef etc., but never one for fully cooked filled pies in ROP that need to be baked at home by consumers. Any guidance is greatly appreciated

 Hi Acme,

 

I am unclear as to how you consider this is "fully cooked" if using raw dough (presumably the reason for baking ?)

 

Product is RTC or RTE ?

 

Not my product area but I speculate that either way, and perhaps also depending on unknown location, the haccp complication may relate to ROP/C.botulinum spp.

[Scampi]

Clearly RTC, as poster stated to be cooked at home by the consumer

 

I would have 1 HACCP plan for the filling(s) and a separate one for the dough. You would then introduce the filling as an ingredient in HACCP plan #2

 

This gives you the benefit of having a kill step in the filling (assuming the fillings are prepared and handled properly) prior to introducing it to the dough and not having to repeat all of the hazards that come from the ingredients of the filling. The second HACCP plan would be considerably shorter than the first. 

 

Ensure that the plant is set up so that there are not any cross contamination points that would reintroduce pathogens (from flour/eggs) back into the filling. 

 

Assuming the filling is completely cooled prior to filling the shells?

[Charles.C]

Clearly RTC, as poster stated to be cooked at home by the consumer

 

I would have 1 HACCP plan for the filling(s) and a separate one for the dough. You would then introduce the filling as an ingredient in HACCP plan #2

 

This gives you the benefit of having a kill step in the filling (assuming the fillings are prepared and handled properly) prior to introducing it to the dough and not having to repeat all of the hazards that come from the ingredients of the filling. The second HACCP plan would be considerably shorter than the first. 

 

Ensure that the plant is set up so that there are not any cross contamination points that would reintroduce pathogens (from flour/eggs) back into the filling. 

 

Assuming the filling is completely cooled prior to filling the shells?

 

Actually the haccp plan could be highly simple since the consumer presumably kills everything if bakes long enough unless perhaps toxin production can occur (IIRC not if frozen), ie zero CCPs regardless of the initial cooking activities.

[AcmeHACCP]

Thank you for the detailed feedback. Sorry i was not as clear as i could have been in original post. This post was my first time using this site and I am grateful to know there is wealth of knowledge available.

 

We are a very small facility, doing everything in one small location for the near term. Large scale will come in the future. At this point in time everything is "Hand" done using standard equipment and following all safety protocols. All fillings are made one day, facility cleaned and sanitized, day two dough made and shells are filled, frozen and vaccumed packed, placed immediately into blast freezer.

 

The pies are to be fully cooked in the home or fully cooked by us in the facility for sale in our small retail location next door (PIe's are transferred to Hot holding cabinets immediately out of the oven, held at 155f for no longer than 3.5 hours. then discarded if not sold. Also we fully bake/cook and transfer at 180f ( literally 30 feet away) for sale on our food truck following the directions provided to staff

 

To answer Charles, the fillings are fully cooked and at 36-38f when placed in raw dough, then frozen. I will create both plans just in case. I too am of the belief that the HACCP plan could be rather simple for the reason you outlined.

 

I am creating the HACCP plan and educating the staff on proper handling, temp logging, handling, sanitation, basically everything etc........Everyday is a brand new day in educating, reminding, reminding again etc. I understand that I'm adding complexities to my initial post. Again I appreciate your insights.

 

Chris

[Charles.C]

Thank you for the detailed feedback. Sorry i was not as clear as i could have been in original post. This post was my first time using this site and I am grateful to know there is wealth of knowledge available.

 

We are a very small facility, doing everything in one small location for the near term. Large scale will come in the future. At this point in time everything is "Hand" done using standard equipment and following all safety protocols. All fillings are made one day, facility cleaned and sanitized, day two dough made and shells are filled, frozen and vaccumed packed, placed immediately into blast freezer.

 

The pies are to be fully cooked in the home or fully cooked by us in the facility for sale in our small retail location next door (PIe's are transferred to Hot holding cabinets immediately out of the oven, held at 155f for no longer than 3.5 hours. then discarded if not sold. Also we fully bake/cook and transfer at 180f ( literally 30 feet away) for sale on our food truck following the directions provided to staff

 

To answer Charles, the fillings are fully cooked and at 36-38f when placed in raw dough, then frozen. I will create both plans just in case. I too am of the belief that the HACCP plan could be rather simple for the reason you outlined.

 

I am creating the HACCP plan and educating the staff on proper handling, temp logging, handling, sanitation, basically everything etc........Everyday is a brand new day in educating, reminding, reminding again etc. I understand that I'm adding complexities to my initial post. Again I appreciate your insights.

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

Thks for clarifications.

 

I anticipate that a meaningful answer may depend on yr location and conceivably any related consequences regarding official process jurisdiction  (eg FDA vs USDA in US). This may particularly relate to -

 

(1) the ROP/C.botulinum aspect, eg existence of a related CCP or not.

 

(2) I recall some partially similar flowcharts to yr own previously discussed here where product was totally cooked (ie "RTE") in the factory but still marketed/labeled as requiring home cooking (> RTC). This affected (reduced) the degree of Regulatory haccp expectations/controls applied to the  internal cooking process and also potentially (1).