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Cooking and chilling CCP for RTE granola?

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Cthulhu

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 06:34 PM

Hello all, starting out with creating a HAACP plan and the company I'm at makes RTE granola and we're going to try and get SQF certified. I'm building up a HAACP plan now and I have our metal detector as a CCP and I was going to add our cooking and chilling stages as a CCP because during HACCP online training it was mentioned these steps as normal CCPs.  They have added a production manager to this small company of about 20 employees and he's adamant that these 2 steps aren't CCPs and we don't need any kind of documentation at all. I wanted to institute a check for temperature verification when the granola comes out of the oven to have documentation that it was in the oven long enough and was cooked to a high enough temperature. The same for our chillers to cool down the granola before we continue our process. I'm also in the process in trying to get our cooking step validated as a kill step, since I seem to follow that this should be validated since there could be possible pathogens in our process or ingredients if it isn't cooked correctly? I'm fairly new at this and I come from the Pharma and Dietary industry and am just learning the food process. My question here, is the Production manager correct about them not being CCPs?  Also, if he isn't or is do I still need documentation that this process has been completed correctly? My thought process was to have a little quick form that states oven temp setting, length of time cooked, and to use a temp gun and record the actual temp of the granola. Thanks in advance for any help and advice!


Edited by Jacob Timperley, 16 April 2021 - 10:12 PM.

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anshikaa

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Posted 15 April 2021 - 07:35 PM

Hi,

 

I strongly believe that the cooking and chilling stages should be considered as CCP. The reason being that these steps not only process the food into a final product but also mitigates the risk of presence of potential pathogens (Here I refer to spores or strains which need high temperature to get deactivated). The chilling step is important as it will keep the structure intact and if there is presence of any living cells then turning them down to a dormant stage from vegetative stage. 

Also, while carrying out a hazard analysis, one surely mentions what all hazards can be present in each of the processing step and over there you can mention that these steps are effective in killing the target organisms.

That being said, the documentation for both steps are fairly important as to monitor the effectiveness of the step and for that you can mention the batch, time, temperature (Surface/Core), Total Duration, Initials of the person who is doing it and Verified by

Hope this Helps :) 



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Posted 16 April 2021 - 12:09 PM

Is your production manager a Science degree holder?  Do they have 10+ years of food safety experience?  If you've answer no, then tell them to stay in their own lane

 

I have included a link to a data base of hazards. It is not the only one out there, but will help you tremendously.

https://active.inspe...introe.aspx?i=1

 

Metal detection as a CCP is up for debate, and depends 100% on your particular hazard analysis and risk assessments.  If you don't have metal on metal parts and/or the likelyhood of machine parts falling in is low, i wouldn't have it as a CCP, it would be a PC  (as an example)

 

Cooking however, you are absolutely correct. The ingredients are mostly agricultural commodities and as such, there is a risk of e coli, listeria  and salmonella in your ingredients.  Time + temperature = lethality and safe for sale


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Cthulhu

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Posted 16 April 2021 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for the replies! I'm glad I was in the ballpark with this and hopefully I'll be able to get this through without much of a problem. 


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Cthulhu

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 04:10 PM

Hello again,

 

Still in a bit of a battle over this. I have gotten the Production Manager to mostly agree that it is a CCP but now we are in a bit of a disagreement on how often to check the temp of the oven/granola.  I have whipped up a check sheet that is asking the operators to do a check once an hour plus/minus 10 minutes and they are recording the surface temperature and internal temperature. Along with the basic information, such as, date/time/lot/oven# etc. Is this really overkill? Our process has 4 different ovens in use and most of the cooking length is 17 minutes. I went with the hour since our Metal detection is deemed a CCP and we will do hourly checks there( he hasn't opposed that).  The production manager just wants to do beginning and end of day.

 

I have tried to scour the internet and this forum on something a little more concrete on frequency but I am not seeing anything.

 

Thanks everyone


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Posted 13 May 2021 - 04:20 PM

Nothing wrong (per se) with start and end.................as long as he is willing to hold everything in between. Give him a cost/benefit analysis and them see what he says

 

I'm with you once/hour because--why not.  He's being silly at this point and why is it up to him anyway?


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Cthulhu

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Posted 13 May 2021 - 04:42 PM

The owners of this small company are leaning on everything he says because of his prior experience in a similar setting, but its experience as a production manager. The changes he has made to the production process are actually very good so far and it is obvious what he's doing is going to make the company money. (Example he as informed the owners of two machines he had in his old job that will greatly help the process here.)

 

Since he has arrived I have noticed a shift in "attitudes" towards my opinion by the owners. Coming from the Dietary and Supplement sector where we seemed to go above and beyond quality standards, I'm a little annoyed how little it seems to matter here. I have a little bit of a problem doing just the bare minimum when adding barely any work will increase our quality. I don't feel like I'm making life hard for anyone or going overkill on things, but he certainly seems to think I do. Being such a small company and its just 4 people in "management" (owners, production manager, and myself) its been a challenge to get them on board with some of the quality programs we need here, especially when everything the production manager does, has easily observed positives, while I sit here and write SOPs, Forms, Documents, and everything else that is "adding" work and looks almost counter productive to them. /end rant


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Posted 13 May 2021 - 05:18 PM

Been in that position---it's hard

 

The best way to see if you can get everyone on board is to show them the cost of NOT doing business safely. Its not uncommon in food for the QA department to be viewed as a cost and not a financial benefit

 

I would approach the owners with research in hand ( e.g.https://globalnews.c...nd-energy-bars/) and show them what the program is designed to prevent. Explain that in order for the company to grow, they need to understand the importance 

 

If they don't get it and nothing changes, it may be time to move on

 

Don't get discouraged, however, from the dietary supplement to granola differences...…going above and beyond is always a good thing, you just need to change your view of hazards a little, and remind yourself of what's required to produce safe food

 

Best of luck


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Posted 14 May 2021 - 02:34 AM

Chronology seems to have been bypassed in this factory.

 

Thermal Validation is supposed to be done before routine Production. Involves microbiological knowledge, not just practical experience..

 

I know nothing about Granola but there is support in Baking processes for, respectively, both Pro and Con setting a Baking Step as CCP.  FSMA seems to be Pro.

 

Metal Detector is similarly yet another contentious CCP topic but probably Pro has the edge.due History.

 

Most auditors probably expect Yes/Yes for the above stages..


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Posted 14 May 2021 - 01:35 PM

Chronology seems to have been bypassed in this factory.

 

Thermal Validation is supposed to be done before routine Production. Involves microbiological knowledge, not just practical experience..

 

 

This place was a small mom and pop place that has grown faster then they can handle it. They recently rented a small factory space instead of making it out of a small shop they had. They had nothing in place for quality programs. All they knew was "make product and ship product". The owners are actually great people, but they just are not from the world of production and quality regulations. They put an ad out for a QA and FS position because they were told they needed to get certified to make a really big distributer happy to use them. So they started the SQF process and I got hired starting from square 1 in late February/early March. Been working towards becoming SQF compliant since day 2. Day 1, my head was spinning and was a little overwhelmed with all the work that needed to get started and then realized I was doing all this mostly alone. The Production Manager was hired early April and I've had to deal with him since then, with small battles here and there. Nice enough guy, but he has a production first mentality and quality might fall somewhere between second and dead last. Ha


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Posted 17 May 2021 - 10:37 AM

Oh jeepers I can completely relate. 

 

I don't know what to say because i am leaving my workplace due to this (partly)

 

Good Luck - I think we all have a battle with production somehow! 





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