22 replies to this topic

[TimG]

I am looking to see which way the industry currently leans. When I ask "someone responsible for production" I mean any high level manager whom the majority of his KPI is weighted toward getting product manufactured (or out the door, or to the customer, etc.).

I think I did the poll thingy right..

Edited by TimG, 29 April 2021 - 03:57 PM.

[Spidey]

May I inquire into the purpose of this query?  Simple research, or trying to make a deeper connection to job satisfaction and/or food safety culture, or something else altogether?

[Timwoodbag]

Small company, guy running the show eventually makes the ultimate decisions.  

[mgourley]

Pretty much standard Org chart that the person responsible for Food Safety or Quality direct reports to the facility manager.

 

Marshall

[Scampi]

I report to the Director of Food Safety, she reports to the President

 

A little context however, we are federally regulated AND GFSI certified, so a lot less "wiggle" room 

[MDaleDDF]

I report only to the owner.  

 

I disagree with:  "Pretty much standard Org chart that the person responsible for Food Safety or Quality direct reports to the facility manager."

 

I don't disagree that it's the case, but that it's a good idea.   A plant manager may wish to make decisions to get product out the door that will not align with food safety/QC concerns.  I know I've certainly had that issue with my plant manager.  His motto is:  "Whatever.   Ship it."  And that's a no go.   I don't interfere in production, but when it comes to QC/food safety, his say is void, it's my call.   He may not override my decisions, nor should he/she be able to do so.    I've read too much on this forum where the facility manager or suits up front make decisions based on money (or other reasons) that don't support the team taking care of HACCP, the GFSI cert, or worse.

 

I haven't had a problem with the current owner, but the previous owner once didn't agree with me on something that was absolutely black and white food safety wise.   I quit on the spot, and walked out quite angry.   He called me back in a few days and rehired me, and acquiesced,   Other than that, the owner has always agreed what's right is right, and must be done.  My dad used to say "there's no right way to do the wrong thing."

[TimG]

May I inquire into the purpose of this query?  Simple research, or trying to make a deeper connection to job satisfaction and/or food safety culture, or something else altogether?

It's difficult to get into without airing dirty laundry. In quality related roles over the years I've answered to the owner,  VP of operations (KPI related to uptime and facility, not production), and CFO (was weird but, boy was it a quick process to get $$ improvements pushed through). In my current role I answer to a plant manager. It presents challenges I've not had to deal with in the past.

I am currently interviewing for a position, and when discussing the position with their Global Director I asked who I would directly report to. She said that at this time the position reports to the plant manager. I respectfully told her I appreciated the chance to learn more about the position, but that because of the high probability for conflict of interest issues I was not interested in proceeding further. She got quiet, and said that before an offer is drawn up she would make sure this position no longer answered to the plant manager or anyone in production/operations.

I'm not saying by any means it was my super awesome bright shining star that made her agree to change that; it just made sense to change that structure when I laid out the possible issues. She even said a few other locations of theirs already operated under a different reporting structure to good success.

 

It looks like it's pretty even on the reporting structure breakdown poll.

[rhondak]

Well this is going to be an interesting poll!!

I work for a small manufacturing company where I have to get the okay from the senior manager. They are more interested in pushing product out the door than food safety but they want to make sure they get their SQF at the end of the day . They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, well in this case, can't teach them food safety. It gets very irksome most days but I am still trying to fight the good fight. 

[Spidey]

It's difficult to get into without airing dirty laundry. In quality related roles over the years I've answered to the owner,  VP of operations (KPI related to uptime and facility, not production), and CFO (was weird but, boy was it a quick process to get $$ improvements pushed through). In my current role I answer to a plant manager. It presents challenges I've not had to deal with in the past.

I am currently interviewing for a position, and when discussing the position with their Global Director I asked who I would directly report to. She said that at this time the position reports to the plant manager. I respectfully told her I appreciated the chance to learn more about the position, but that because of the high probability for conflict of interest issues I was not interested in proceeding further. She got quiet, and said that before an offer is drawn up she would make sure this position no longer answered to the plant manager or anyone in production/operations.

I'm not saying by any means it was my super awesome bright shining star that made her agree to change that; it just made sense to change that structure when I laid out the possible issues. She even said a few other locations of theirs already operated under a different reporting structure to good success.

 

It looks like it's pretty even on the reporting structure breakdown poll.

 

Thank you for sharing that, it's very interesting.  It does seem really backwards to have QA fall under Production because it kills the checks and balances system.  I would like to imagine that in the future, all companies would move toward QA being an independent entity that does not report to Production and really does provide safety and value.  But, since we live in the real world, 50-50 may be the best we can get.

 

My only food experience is with my family's company, where food safety and quality have always been top of mind.

[zoelawton]

This is interesting. 

 

my line manager 'officially' is the owner/director, however he is rarely present, doesn't listen, doesn't reply, simply doesn't care. my second line manager is the technical manager, but again, apart from the odd conversation here and there, communication is minimal. neither of them give me tasks, ask me what i'm up to, how things are, have no interest or idea of what i do. i choose to report to the facility manager (who has no knowledge of anything qual related) as he is the only one who will actually have a discussion about things and work with me in resolving issues etc. 

 

Important reports etc. get emailed to all three of them from myself, not because this is a requirement or asked of, purely to cover my own back so when they turn around in 6 months and say 'why wasn't this done' i'll say 'check your emails' 

[MDaleDDF]

 

 

where food safety and quality have always been top of mind.

It would be nice if this was the case everywhere.   I would not work anywhere this wasn't the case.   If I had to constantly beg management to care about doing what needs to be done to keep certifications straight, and keep food safety job 1, I would walk.  Some of the stories I've read on here are scary as a consumer, let alone a fellow food safety advocate.

[kfromNE]

When I worked for a small company (family owned) - I reported to the son of the owner who ran the facility. In the larger facility I work for now - I report to the VP of Operations at the facility. On the corporate level - I'm part of the food safety team that is run by the VP of Compliance and Food Protection.

[jkoratich712]

Small/Medium sized, family owned and operated business. I report directly to the VP of Operations (who is a son of the current owner), and am responsible for FS for the company (multi-facilities). There isn't anyone other then myself in the ' food safety department'. I have full support from senior management for making decisions, including disposing of a whole shift of product. Of course, we need to ship product in order to still be in business, but we need to ensure that the product is safe. 

[TimG]

What I've learned so far is that there is no standardized approach to this. I wonder how hard it would be to figure out the added 'challenges' that answering to production poses. Maybe that's not the root cause of the conflicts.

[kfromNE]

What I've learned so far is that there is no standardized approach to this. I wonder how hard it would be to figure out the added 'challenges' that answering to production poses. Maybe that's not the root cause of the conflicts.

What I've found - it's more about the person than the position they are in. Whether or not they consider food safety a priority.

[TimG]

What I've found - it's more about the person than the position they are in. Whether or not they consider food safety a priority.

I'd say I agree with that to an extent, but that it still very much shows your team that food safety/quality is a top concern when quality is able to act independently of production. Production managers/directors have quite different mindsets than quality managers and I've always kind of bridged the gap because I've been in positions of authority in both worlds. The quality manager leans toward "black/white, it either passes or it doesn't, if it doesn't don't ship it" where the production mindset is usually "how can we get it to pass, is it really a food safety issue? Is it really a big deal, lets get it to pass and get to the next lot. Prove to me why you think that is dangerous to ship and then I'll let you non-conform it."  Typically, they have different priorities. I guess it works in some places, and it doesn't in others.

[Charles.C]

Interesting thread.

 

Might also note that different Locations may have additional terminologies/stuctures (eg Technical Manager). I have also encountered some Facilities where people wear both hats (ultimate cost cutting).

 

Personally I suspect "Culture" is a frequent determining factor for reporting chain although not always explicitly.

 

Some Facilities only process per Order. Others may process for Storage and speculate on Prices.

 

As to the consequences of the specific choice, the negative ones are multiply described here and  in various other threads.

[kfromNE]

Interestingly enough - my position was created around 2.5 years ago to help avoid the conflict of interest and reduce some of the workloads. Previously the QC Managers reported to the production directors. This was done company wide.

 

I agree with Charles. Another potential factor - the customer(s).

[kingstudruler1]

hmm

 

I have had it just about every way.   i think i agree most with its about the individual and not the position.   ive seen amazing and horrible quality/FS leaders, operations leaders, and owners.   

 

if plant management is not supportive of quality / food safety, wont your life be miserable regardless of who you report to?   

[TimG]

 

if plant management is not supportive of quality / food safety, wont your life be miserable regardless of who you report to?   

 

Yes, of course you're right.

I guess what it all boils down to is I'm trying to qualitatively pinpoint some warning signs so I can avoid similar situations in any future employment opportunities. This poll didn't really give me any conclusive data on that, but it wasn't a total loss. I just have to figure out how to better gauge a companies culture before accepting employment.

During interviews, it's a two way street for me. I typically have as many questions as they do. There's no sense accepting a position if you don't have enough information to know it's not going to be a good fit for either of you. I'm looking for better questions to ask!

[kingstudruler1]

Yes, of course you're right.

I guess what it all boils down to is I'm trying to qualitatively pinpoint some warning signs so I can avoid similar situations in any future employment opportunities. This poll didn't really give me any conclusive data on that, but it wasn't a total loss. I just have to figure out how to better gauge a companies culture before accepting employment.

During interviews, it's a two way street for me. I typically have as many questions as they do. There's no sense accepting a position if you don't have enough information to know it's not going to be a good fit for either of you. I'm looking for better questions to ask!

ya, its hard.   some times they are far from honest and they know what you want to hear.   I've been burned.  hindsight, should have seen the other signs.   

 

Btw-  the worst interview snow job i've experienced  was when i was going  to be reporting through quality and food safety.  

[Totes716]

I report to QC  People above me in QC report directly to the CEO.  Her decision would be final.  I think if there was a very serious food safety issue QC management would advise the CEO to hold the lot and they would most likely follow that advise out of sense of self preservation.  It's a very mixed bag.        

[G M]

It depends a great deal on the individuals.  Even within a large organization with facility level food safety/quality personnel reporting up to the same corporate director I see very different styles and tolerances in each facility, even though they ostensibly have the same reporting structure.

 

This field is one in which we often have to tell others in the team some things they would rather not hear when deviations and defects occur.  That kind of conflict isn't easy for everyone to handle.  Fear, anger, and denial are unfortunately common responses.