9 replies to this topic

[FoodSafety2022]

Hi All,

 

I am developing finished product specification sheet for unbaked frozen croissants below. Products must be fully baked before consumption. 

 

a- blank

b- cream cheese filled

c- fruit cream cheese filled like apple, berry etc..

 

 

 

I include microbiological specifications below in the spec sheet. 

 

(1) SPC < 300,000 cfu/g

(2) Coliforms   < 1000 cfu/g

(3) E.coli (<10 cfu/g)

(4) Listeria mono        negative/25g

(5) Salmonella spp    negative/25g 

 

Do I miss any micro criteria or do I include more than needed ?

 

Thank you

 

 

[olenazh]

Hi, welcome to the forum! I would exclude SPC to avoid further possible questions as it might look scary to unknowledgeable people. Why Coliform is so high? What is micro profile for the ingredients (e.g. dough, cream cheese, fruit feeling, etc.)?

[Charles.C]

Hi All,

 

I am developing finished product specification sheet for unbaked frozen croissants below. Products must be fully baked before consumption. 

 

a- blank

b- cream cheese filled

c- fruit cream cheese filled like apple, berry etc..

 

 

 

I include microbiological specifications below in the spec sheet. 

 

(1) SPC < 300,000 cfu/g

(2) Coliforms   < 1000 cfu/g

(3) E.coli (<10 cfu/g)

(4) Listeria mono        negative/25g

(5) Salmonella spp    negative/25g 

 

Do I miss any micro criteria or do I include more than needed ?

 

Thank you

Hi ebook,

 

You probably need to define whether any of the items are categorized as RTE. If not, micro. specifications often tend to be particularly subjective/problematic other than zero tolerant pathogens which, BTW, is not the automatic case for L.mono.

 

If you wish to see a variety of commercial/Regulatory specifications for RTE/NRTE items can try the 2 links within this post -

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...ms/#entry183646

[FoodSafety2022]

Hello,

 

Thanks for your quick reply. According to FDA guideline for Potential Hazards for Foods potential micro hazards for unbaked frozen croissants are E.coli, Salmonela spp and Listeria mono. If products are unbaked frozen fruit pies, the potential micro hazards are E.coli, Salmonela spp, Listeria mono and S. aureus

 

I am told that National Advisory Committee on Microbiological Criteria for Foods (2018) is a good reference and already did some google search. No luck yet.

 

Thanks   

[Scampi]

Since this is clearly a RTC item, and flour is in essence an agricultural product (assuming you're not using pasteurized or heat treated flour) your limits make good sense to me

[Charles.C]

Since this is clearly a RTC item, and flour is in essence an agricultural product (assuming you're not using pasteurized or heat treated flour) your limits make good sense to me

 

Hi Scampi,

 

I assumed he was also seeking limits for a (??), b and c. These will logically relate to the finished product.

 

There are seemingly some illogicalities  and omissions in OP at the moment. Can simply compare the list to data in links of post 3

 

@ ebook, with respect to NACMF, perhaps have a  look at the links i suggested.

[Scampi]

I got that Charles

 

What I was saying as his product is RTC, and is flour based, for limits on his finished products as he listed, I do not think he has missed anything, nor do I think those values are out of line  (assuming the flour is has not undergone a kill step)  The cream cheese and fruit should be RTE when they arrive, but once the raw flour is introduced, those specs are meaningless for the finished product

 

As the facility is going to be coated in a fine film of flour (most likely) the SPC limits seem reasonable to me.  

I do not find the OP to be missing an detail...was asking if they were missing any microbes that they incorporate into the spec, I do not believe that is necessary  

[Charles.C]

I got that Charles

 

What I was saying as his product is RTC, and is flour based, for limits on his finished products as he listed, I do not think he has missed anything, nor do I think those values are out of line  (assuming the flour is has not undergone a kill step)  The cream cheese and fruit should be RTE when they arrive, but once the raw flour is introduced, those specs are meaningless for the finished product

 

As the facility is going to be coated in a fine film of flour (most likely) the SPC limits seem reasonable to me.  

I do not find the OP to be missing an detail...was asking if they were missing any microbes that they incorporate into the spec, I do not believe that is necessary  

Hi Scampi,

 

IMO one needs to be extremely realistic regarding (possibly contractual?) micro. specifications for NON-RTE items. RTE is a totally different ball-game.

 

For NRTE/RTE, It is always preferable IMO to make some samples and get some process data (not 1 sample !)  before sticking one's neck out over "guaranteed" micro. specifications.

 

Below are 2 extracts from my previous links (ICMSF, NACMCF)  and one from IT which maybe give some help into NRTE  reality. (IIRC the EC limit for generic E.coli in environment of  RTE items is between GMP and Maximum values given in 1st file)

 

Can compare the various micro. species/numbers to OP and note the absence of APC although some "guesses" for latter are available elsewhere.

 

IMO, based (hopefully) on samples, an appropriate target probably lies somewhere within the RTE and the 2 NRTE  although a working specification is probably nearer reality if implemented via a nmMc type format.

(I assume no Regulatory aspects involved which afaik is usually the case for NRTE, non-"Standardized" products in USA.)

Attached Files

•  part-baked.pdf   58.19KB   20 downloads
•  Baked Items.pdf   70.51KB   17 downloads
•  unbaked,fruit-filled,croissant..pdf   432.64KB   16 downloads

[Tony-C]

Hi ebook2008@,

 

 

Welcome to the IFSQN forums.

 

First of all, I would consider changing your username as using an email address might attract spam.

 

For your product specification, have you carried out any validation studies based on your cooking instructions? This should have micro levels before and after cooking. For me, this would lead to determining your raw product specification.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

[FoodSafety2022]

Hi ebook2008@,

 

 

 

 

For your product specification, have you carried out any validation studies based on your cooking instructions? This should have micro levels before and after cooking. For me, this would lead to determining your raw product specification.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

I have not done any validation studies. 

Regarding the the flour we use, it reads on the COA provided by the supplier that the flour has not been processed to control microbial pathogens. It is not intended for ready to eat product. 

 

Thanks