19 replies to this topic

[Kendra B.]

Hi All, 

 

I'm wondering if there is an opinion or industry standard for if hair nets are required in areas where the process is fully enclosed? One argument is that the hair net reduces people from touching their hair and general keeping the production area clean. From the other perspective it would be impossible for a hair to get in the product. 

 

This is production for sale in the US. 

[Charles.C]

Hi All, 

 

I'm wondering if there is an opinion or industry standard for if hair nets are required in areas where the process is fully enclosed? One argument is that the hair net reduces people from touching their hair and general keeping the production area clean. From the other perspective it would be impossible for a hair to get in the product. 

 

This is production for sale in the US. 

Hi Kendra,

 

There is a veritable encyclopedia of threads relating to hairnet necessity on this Forum.

 

One possible answer to yr query is that it's a matter of Principle/Policy, ie GMP likely includes it (somewhere) so no need to "justify" it.

[SHQuality]

Even a fully enclosed system will eventually have to be opened to resolve jams or make repairs.

It's better to already have an ongoing hairnet policy in place to make it less likely for people to forget wearing them when it really matters.

[Setanta]

Necessary? For food production? Yes, please. If not, please share who this company is so I might avoid them.

[MDaleDDF]

I always find it funny that we all have to wear hair nets, but people who prepare and serve the food don't.   Wassup wit dat?

But yes, for me, hairnets in a food production facility, always.

[Miss Frankie]

I always find it funny that we all have to wear hair nets, but people who prepare and serve the food don't.   Wassup wit dat?

But yes, for me, hairnets in a food production facility, always.

 

Totally agree!!
We went to one cafe and they were using their garbage can lid as a table to set their drink tray on while filling cups.  I couldn't believe it...and never went back.

[Kendra B.]

I thought I read on one of the threads here that SQF allowed sites to argue they didn't need it in certain cases but thought that was odd. 

 

Glad to hear that my gut reaction was correct! Thank you everyone

[MDaleDDF]

I'm going to do some thread CPR here....  I have an odd hairnet question.

 

One of my guys shows up today with his head totally shaved.   And I mean totally, no hair nor stubble on dude's head at all.   He comes into my lab with a hairnet on and says "man I don't mind wearing this still, but do I have to according to the rules?"     I said well sh**, I don't know!   That's an interesting question!  

SO?!?!?!?!   Does he?  I'd say no....other than I don't want to open that can of worms with everyone else, etc.   But really, is there any risk of his hair contaminating anything?   That's obviously a firm no....

 

Thanks for any input.

Edited by MDaleDDF, 02 April 2024 - 11:57 AM.

[kfromNE]

I'm going to do some thread CPR here....  I have an odd hairnet question.

 

One of my guys shows up today with his head totally shaved.   And I mean totally, no hair nor stubble on dude's head at all.   He comes into my lab with a hairnet on and says "man I don't mind wearing this still, but do I have to according to the rules?"     I said well sh**, I don't know!   That's an interesting question!  

SO?!?!?!?!   Does he?  I'd say no....other than I don't want to open that can of worms with everyone else, etc.   But really, is there any risk of his hair contaminating anything?   That's obviously a firm no....

 

Thanks for any input.

 

We've kept the policy simple and have everyone wear one. However you could argue on the line of facial hair/beard net. So if hair is a certain length on your face, a hairnet or beard net is required. 

[MDaleDDF]

We've kept the policy simple and have everyone wear one. However you could argue on the line of facial hair/beard net. So if hair is a certain length on your face, a hairnet or beard net is required. 

Even that is a gray area, no?   How much stubble before a beard guard is needed?   I mentioned in another thread there was a lady here who has since retied that had a lady-moustache, but nobody ever dared tell her to wear a beard guard or shave it, lol.... and no auditor ever dared wade into those treacherous waters either.

I'm gonna tell him to continue to wear it, just so there's no hoopla about it among the rest of the employees. 

He certainly raises a valid point though...

[Setanta]

Once, I shaved my head for a co-worker going through chemo. I wore a hairnet from day 1.

Hair is always growing, so even if a person is shaved clean on Monday, by Wednesday, they have a 5 o'clock shadow. When do you draw the line and since each person grows hair at different rates?

[MDaleDDF]

Once, I shaved my head for a co-worker going through chemo. I wore a hairnet from day 1.

Hair is always growing, so even if a person is shaved clean on Monday, by Wednesday, they have a 5 o'clock shadow. When do you draw the line and since each person grows hair at different rates?

Yes, agreed.

But then what about eyebrows?    Why aren't there eyebrow nets?    Arm hair?  These are both more likely to drop a hair into product than stubble, no?   And how long must stubble be before it's a real threat?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just sayin.....lol.

I'm revising my rule to read:   Anyone in production must wear a hairnet.   Then there's no more issues.....

[kfromNE]

Even that is a gray area, no?   How much stubble before a beard guard is needed?   I mentioned in another thread there was a lady here who has since retied that had a lady-moustache, but nobody ever dared tell her to wear a beard guard or shave it, lol.... and no auditor ever dared wade into those treacherous waters either.

I'm gonna tell him to continue to wear it, just so there's no hoopla about it among the rest of the employees. 

He certainly raises a valid point though...

 

Beard nets and hair length are definitely a gray area. That is why we keep our policy to say everyone wears a hairnet. 

 

I'm glad that it is not by job anymore to tell employees if they don't shave tonight - a beard net would be required the next day. 

 

For the lady with a mustache - there seems to be situations like that where even the auditor or inspector won't say anything. 

[jfrey123]

Beard nets and hair length are definitely a gray area. That is why we keep our policy to say everyone wears a hairnet. 

 

I'm glad that it is not by job anymore to tell employees if they don't shave tonight - a beard net would be required the next day. 

 

For the lady with a mustache - there seems to be situations like that where even the auditor or inspector won't say anything. 

 

Exactly my thought on head shaving vs hairnets.  If you let it slide when they shaved their head every morning, eventually they'll forget to shave that morning and argue, "it's not really that long".  Hairnets for all, just like every catch-all law or GFSI code, is just easier to maintain.

 

As for the lady with a mustache, I'll do you one better:  Your female GFSI auditor shows up with a perceivable mustache.  The absolute horror that my production manager and I went through arguing back and forth about what to do.  What if we make her mad by saying it?  She obviously knows it's there, what if she's testing us?!  When it came to the moment of truth, standing outside the entrance to our production area, donning hairnets, I made a showing of rubbing my own bare cheeks and said aloud, "hmmm, I feel a little stubble so I'll grab a beard bet.  Our GMP policy is to wear beard nets if there's any perceived facial hair," while I pointed to a posted signage that said basically that.  And I kid you not, she smiled, nodded, and PUT THE BEARD NET ON.

Edited by jfrey123, 02 April 2024 - 04:24 PM.

[Setanta]

WELL DONE! Nicely handled, IMO!

[MDaleDDF]

Exactly my thought on head shaving vs hairnets.  If you let it slide when they shaved their head every morning, eventually they'll forget to shave that morning and argue, "it's not really that long".  Hairnets for all, just like every catch-all law or GFSI code, is just easier to maintain.

 

As for the lady with a mustache, I'll do you one better:  Your female GFSI auditor shows up with a perceivable mustache.  The absolute horror that my production manager and I went through arguing back and forth about what to do.  What if we make her mad by saying it?  She obviously knows it's there, what if she's testing us?!  When it came to the moment of truth, standing outside the entrance to our production area, donning hairnets, I made a showing of rubbing my own bare cheeks and said aloud, "hmmm, I feel a little stubble so I'll grab a beard bet.  Our GMP policy is to wear beard nets if there's any perceived facial hair," while I pointed to a posted signage that said basically that.  And I kid you not, she smiled, nodded, and PUT THE BEARD NET ON.

U sir, have some serious huevos...lol.  I would not have said a word....

[GMO]

Back to the topic. I think as with all things food safety... It depends. Assess the risk. The only place I could think o where it may not be required would be beverage manufacturing where it's all genuinely enclosed. BUT as soon as you need a pipework intervention like for maintenance, you should. Also there is that mindset thing which comes with a change of clothing. I suspect that's why you get some fully enclosed plants with people wearing mob caps, t shirts and trousers? To my mind as soon as you're saying a mob cap is required, why is clothing ok that you can't remove before visiting the toilet? When that clothing is likely to be closer to any pipe intervention than any hairs?

[G M]

Even that is a gray area, no?   How much stubble before a beard guard is needed?   ...

 

Do you want to be measuring people's hair?  If not, then everyone wears it.

[MDaleDDF]

Do you want to be measuring people's hair?  If not, then everyone wears it.

I do, yes!   What length is acceptable?!?!?! Lol....

Yeah, I told him everyone wears one in production, just to make my own life easier...

[G M]

I do, yes!   What length is acceptable?!?!?! Lol....

 

Sounds like HR is about to get involved