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ChristinaK

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 04:46 PM

We're in the process of sourcing and evaluating some marshmallows for a hot cocoa kit.

Marshmallows, of course, made out of gelatin. I'm currently waiting to confirm the source of the gelatin (beef, pork, fish, etc.).

 

I was hoping to find some enlightenment on labeling if the gelatin is derived from fish...how the heck do we list that on the label? Gelatin is <5% of the ingredient composition, so do we have to go as far as to list the species of fish as well?

 

I have never thought so hard about marshmallows before. I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself, since I'm not sure what animal the gelatin is derived from yet, but I like to be as prepared as possible.


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kingstudruler1

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 05:05 PM

D.4 If an ingredient that contains a major food allergen is derived from several different species of the allergenic source, does each source need to be declared on the label? Yes. If an ingredient is derived from several different species of an allergenic source, each source must be declared on the label, e.g., “Fish gelatin (cod, haddock, pollock)” or “Contains cod, haddock, pollock” (see section 403(w)(2) of the FD&C Act).

 

https://www.fda.gov/...163454/download

 

 

However most packaged of marshmellows that I have seen only state "fish gelatin"


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Scampi

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 05:28 PM

Are you able to source kosher marshmallows instead?  Then you wouldn't have to worry about allergens at all


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ChristinaK

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 05:30 PM

D.4 If an ingredient that contains a major food allergen is derived from several different species of the allergenic source, does each source need to be declared on the label? Yes. If an ingredient is derived from several different species of an allergenic source, each source must be declared on the label, e.g., “Fish gelatin (cod, haddock, pollock)” or “Contains cod, haddock, pollock” (see section 403(w)(2) of the FD&C Act).

 

https://www.fda.gov/...163454/download

 

 

However most packaged of marshmellows that I have seen only state "fish gelatin"

 

That's the same guidance (and only guidance) I have been able to find.

 

My first instinct was to look online at various marshmallow packages, and most of them were pork- or bovine-derived. Hopefully that will be the case for our marshmallows, too. Or maybe I'll try requesting our PD team source marshmallows that aren't derived from fish just to avoid the issue altogether! Haha...


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ChristinaK

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 05:35 PM

Are you able to source kosher marshmallows instead?  Then you wouldn't have to worry about allergens at all

 

Kosher marshmallows can be made from gelatin derived from fish, though. 

I'm not worried about allergen cross-contact on our end, since we will receive them as pre-packed RTE items that we place into gift sets. We need to create the product and outer box label(s) for the item, so that's why I'm focused on the allergen labeling aspect.


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Posted 03 April 2024 - 06:22 PM

After a google, I found one ing statement that indeed lists as "Fish Gelatin (Derived from Nile Perch or Tilapia)".   

Whether it's legally required or done out of an abundance of caution I have no idea.

 

I knew there was a reason I didn't like marshmallows........Blech.   Flan as well.   Blech,..


Edited by MDaleDDF, 03 April 2024 - 06:23 PM.


kingstudruler1

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Posted 03 April 2024 - 06:31 PM

That's the same guidance (and only guidance) I have been able to find.

 

My first instinct was to look online at various marshmallow packages, and most of them were pork- or bovine-derived. Hopefully that will be the case for our marshmallows, too. Or maybe I'll try requesting our PD team source marshmallows that aren't derived from fish just to avoid the issue altogether! Haha...

 

Ya avoid the fish.  lol.  MOST mashmellows unless they are kosher are not fish.   


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Posted 03 April 2024 - 09:02 PM

Dumak  makers of campfire marshmallows are allergen free.

 

Kosher just means it dies not have pork.

 

Being a vegetarian sleuthing out ingredients became the norm long time ago. :) 


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G M

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Posted 04 April 2024 - 03:09 PM

...

Kosher just means it dies not have pork.

...

 

I have a feeling the auditors for Kosher certification would disagree.



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Posted 04 April 2024 - 03:15 PM

Kraft jet puffed, whom one could assume has a regulatory team approving packaging does not list any animal ingredients on the packaging, just gelatin

 

FYI


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ChristinaK

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Posted 04 April 2024 - 05:42 PM

Kraft jet puffed, whom one could assume has a regulatory team approving packaging does not list any animal ingredients on the packaging, just gelatin

 

FYI

 

Right? Kraft and Campfire were the two I immediately looked at, since they're pretty huge brands. Campfire states on their website that the gelatin is from pork, except for their products sold in the middle east. Kraft doesn't say at all...

 

There's actually a big debate among those who are Kosher whether or not gelatin made with pork bones can be considered kosher. Some say no because it's sourced from pigs. Others say since animal bones are considered inedible and can be kosher even if from non-kosher animal sources, gelatin can be kosher.

 

I have learned so much about gelatin these last few days, but nothing solid about labeling it if the gelatin is sourced from fish, haha...


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Posted 04 April 2024 - 09:00 PM

Finally found vegan marshmellows - this search was almost as hard as finding Pomona Pectin...

 

https://dandies.com/


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Posted 04 April 2024 - 09:22 PM

I realize there us a couple more things involved, but pretty much thats what rabbi's mentioned to me in my travels.

 

I had a drink one night near a food factory I was inspecting the next day - in walks a rabbi and an iman. They were there to do their inspections the next day.  

 

I was a Gideon at that time - what a mix at the hotel bar that night!!!


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GMO

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Posted 05 April 2024 - 01:19 PM

I used to work in confectionery and we used bovine gelatin as it had the "cleanest" flavour.  Chicken and pork were surprisingly meaty.  Fish I would be surprised if it's not going to bring a taint.  I can't imagine that would be cheap to produce without off flavours and would have a large market in supplements at a guess?

Either way, just specify with your supplier that you want it to be free from allergens.  I'd assume that US legislation would be the same in which you would need to label the allergen even if it's at a low volume.  Also consider that a consumer could decide to eat the Marshmallows on their own so could get a more concentrated dose.



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Posted 05 April 2024 - 02:04 PM


I have learned so much about gelatin these last few days, but nothing solid

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ChristinaK

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Posted 08 April 2024 - 07:44 PM

brian-baumgartner-badumtss.gif

Oh man, that was completely unintentional! Haha. 

 

In good news, it's bovine-based gelatin. Woot!

But I forgot to ask about the starch used, so here we go for round two, haha...


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Posted 09 April 2024 - 02:09 PM

No, you typically don't need to specify the fish species on the label unless there's a regulation in your specific country that requires it.



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Posted 09 April 2024 - 03:47 PM

Oh man, that was completely unintentional! Haha. 

 

In good news, it's bovine-based gelatin. Woot!

But I forgot to ask about the starch used, so here we go for round two, haha...

 

I'd eat my hat if it's going to be allergenic but best to check.  Corn based would be my gut feel.  

 

Out of this it might be worth looking at your approval process?  Most of the time these questions should be on a spec format but I do understand that could be difficult to get from people if you're still at feasibility stage.



ChristinaK

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Posted 09 April 2024 - 07:37 PM

I'd eat my hat if it's going to be allergenic but best to check.  Corn based would be my gut feel.  

 

Out of this it might be worth looking at your approval process?  Most of the time these questions should be on a spec format but I do understand that could be difficult to get from people if you're still at feasibility stage.

 

It was cornstarch after all, haha.

 

I agree that it would be much easier to have a spec sheet, but in this case we are very early in product development. The nutrition and ingredients statements have to be finished as early as possible so the set can be approved by the applicable parties. I'm still learning the entire development process, and it's really interesting since we don't handle the food at all--we just put the supplier's finished product into a "gift box" with other items. The nerdy part of me is very excited to learn about multiple different food categories, even though it is...a lot. Haha


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