18 replies to this topic

[jnsh]

Hi all, I left my job in October. I alerted management to an issue with our cooler on a Friday, the owner opted to "let it ride" through the weekend and when we returned to work Monday it was at 57 degrees. Product had started to grow mold, the owners initial call was to scrape it off and continue to use, I recommended disposal. 

 

After an initial meeting with the owner we met with the operations team, and he suggested that we sort through product and use anything that hadn't visibly molded. I pointed out the rate of microbial growth at that temp as well as FDA cold storage standards, at that point I was called in to a one on one meeting with the owner and told that the amount of product I recommended disposing was equivalent to one months payroll.

 

I was then told to leave the office as he had a sales call, seeing as we had not resolved the issue, and it seemed as though the owner did not take it seriously I resigned from my position.

 

What would you have done?

 

Additional info: I am PCQI, HACCP, and SQF certified, and have done a number of classes on Food Safety.

[TimG]

Is there a food safety plan and what does that plan dictate you do in that scenario? What is the product and risk(s)? What was your level of responsibility in that position?

Lots of variables in this one..

[SHQuality]

I wouldn't have resigned. Now that owner has one less person keeping him in check and protecting the guests from his dangerous practices.

I would report him to the local food safety authority (do you have any evidence like pictures. emails or texts you can share with them?)

[jnsh]

Is there a food safety plan and what does that plan dictate you do in that scenario? What is the product and risk(s)? What was your level of responsibility in that position?

Lots of variables in this one..

Yes, our food safety plan gave us a 4 hour window to be above 41 degrees, our crisis management plan and cold storage procedure both had product discard as the next step if product was out of temp longer than 4 hours. Ingredients were for a mushroom jerky pre-cook step. I was the Quality Assurance Manager. We had previously had an issue while I was out on paternal leave where product was released and molded, the owner refused to do a voluntary market withdrawal or recall. 

[jnsh]

I wouldn't have resigned. Now that owner has one less person keeping him in check and protecting the guests from his dangerous practices.

I would report him to the local food safety authority (do you have any evidence like pictures. emails or texts you can share with them?)

I have texts and photos. Regardless of my input the owner had refused to take my guidance in other situations related to quality, this wasn't the only instance.

[TimG]

So, you had a plan with steps that were willfully not followed. You voiced your concerns (hopefully with BCC emails to your personal email) once returning from paternal leave. And now the cycle is repeating itself, all while you are in a possible fall guy position?

First, I'd document everything and make sure that information would be accessible to me in case of an 'accidental' data deletion. Could be as simple as BCC'ing myself on my personal email. 

Second, I'd evaluate the actual risk associated. Could it result in a quality related market withdrawal? A full-blown FDA class 3, 2, or 1 mandated recall? I would compile that information and send it to ownership, once again BCC'ing my personal email. In that email to ownership, I would explain my comfort (or discomfort) level with past decisions and their associated risks to the customers, and state in no uncertain terms that for the safety of the consumer we must follow our own written food safety plan in the future.

 

Then I would seriously start looking for another position. You've documented the issue, you've explained as a manager how you feel about the issue, and you have laid down in no uncertain terms that you need to fix the issue. But you know it's probably going to happen again.

Depending on my home situation, I might have submitted a resignation. You were just off for having a kid so providing for them comes first. I have no kids, so I would have had a bugout bag ready after I sent my email to the owner.

 

Edit: Oh, and of course I would use this documentation to write myself a CAPA. If staying, proper completion of a CAPA with root cause and the why's is going to be required. You didn't stay so I left this out. But fixing the problem should come first (if staying.)

Edited by TimG, 24 February 2026 - 04:03 PM.

[kconf]

What was the temp on Friday when you identified issues with the cooler? Had the mushrooms ever been moldy looking when temp was still within range? What was your boss's reasoning to still continue with the product use?

 

I would not have quit just over this.

[jnsh]

What was the temp on Friday when you identified issues with the cooler? Had the mushrooms ever been moldy looking when temp was still within range? What was your boss's reasoning to still continue with the product use?

 

I would not have quit just over this.

Temp was 57 degrees and remained at that temp through the weekend. No issues with the mushrooms prior to going into the cooler, we used dehydrated and rehydrated them as part of our process.

 

His reasoning was that the inventory loss was too high, and that the cook step would be enough to negate any potential issue. Mushrooms would have had to process through multiple pieces of equipment to get to the cook step at this point - minimum two additional processing days before cook, and the cooler was still out of temp. He did not approve bringing in a refrigerated truck to try to cool product to temp, and owed the company that provided service for our cooler so they would not come out to service until past dues were paid.

[jnsh]

Temp was 57 degrees and remained at that temp through the weekend. No issues with the mushrooms prior to going into the cooler, we used dehydrated and rehydrated them as part of our process.

 

His reasoning was that the inventory loss was too high, and that the cook step would be enough to negate any potential issue. Mushrooms would have had to process through multiple pieces of equipment to get to the cook step at this point - minimum two additional processing days before cook, and the cooler was still out of temp. He did not approve bringing in a refrigerated truck to try to cool product to temp, and owed the company that provided service for our cooler so they would not come out to service until past dues were paid.

 

 

 

 

I would not have quit just over this.

Other issues that occurred prior to this; previous issue with product shipped molding and would not approve a market withdrawal or recall, decided to do production runs without the use of desiccants to aid shelf life (we were in the process of doing an internal shelf life study to verify this decision, but it was not yet complete), despite our food safety plan mandating quarterly environmental swabbing for pathogens it took me over a year to final get it approved in the budget (we had to switch labs as he had not paid our previous lab) and it was only approved because we had an upcoming audit, could not get approval for ATP swabs to verify sanitation standards were being met, we also had our pest control service cut off the month prior and switched to doing an internal pest control program (I was not consulting on this, it was decided between the owner and our maintenance lead).This was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

 

 

Edited by jnsh, 24 February 2026 - 05:27 PM.

[TimG]

He did not approve bringing in a refrigerated truck to try to cool product to temp, and owed the company that provided service for our cooler so they would not come out to service until past dues were paid.

 

So, he's not paying his bills on top of it. It's quite possible if he took that loss, you would ALL be out of jobs.

Look, you made a call to leave based on your gut. Your brain is taking in sensory data at over 1 billion bits per second. All of that gets filtered down to help you make decisions and there's no way we could have the info you did when you made that decision to resign. Both times I've done it, the places were out of business within 3 years after me leaving. Could I have stayed on for the ride and went down with the ship? Sure..but my situation is one where I can take a couple years off if I need to (I save save save money like that squirrel with the fat cheeks).

 

Do you regret making the decision?

[jnsh]

So, he's not paying his bills on top of it. It's quite possible if he took that loss, you would ALL be out of jobs.

Look, you made a call to leave based on your gut. Your brain is taking in sensory data at over 1 billion bits per second. All of that gets filtered down to help you make decisions and there's no way we could have the info you did when you made that decision to resign. Both times I've done it, the places were out of business within 3 years after me leaving. Could I have stayed on for the ride and went down with the ship? Sure..but my situation is one where I can take a couple years off if I need to (I save save save money like that squirrel with the fat cheeks).

 

Do you regret making the decision?

I don't regret it, It's nice to not have the day to day stress of trying to maintain proper documentation when we aren't following our own policies. We can get by on my partners income in the interim. 

[kconf]

I think you did the right thing then. Were you aware of company's financial position before you joined them?

 

Even if you keep food safety aside, this establishment sounds like a low quality employer, thus not worth the headache you were getting. I hope you find a (better) place you deserve. 

[jnsh]

I think you did the right thing then. Were you aware of company's financial position before you joined them?

 

Even if you keep food safety aside, this establishment sounds like a low quality employer, thus not worth the headache you were getting. I hope you find a (better) place you deserve. 

When I started the financials weren't that bad, throughout my time there the owner made a number of bad decisions that led to where things were.

 

Thank you for the kind response.

[Scampi]

I think you made the right decision.  You and you alone have to be comfortable with your choices.  Integrity is important

[SHQuality]

His reasoning was that the inventory loss was too high, and that the cook step would be enough to negate any potential issue. Mushrooms would have had to process through multiple pieces of equipment to get to the cook step at this point - minimum two additional processing days before cook, and the cooler was still out of temp. He did not approve bringing in a refrigerated truck to try to cool product to temp, and owed the company that provided service for our cooler so they would not come out to service until past dues were paid.

A cook step may well be able to kill off pathogen microbes, but the owner's "plan" does not account for the toxins some bacteria produce when they grow. I'm assuming, but I'm pretty sure that one walk-in didn't exclusively contain mushrooms and had other ingredients that were at risk.

[jnsh]

A cook step may well be able to kill off pathogen microbes, but the owner's "plan" does not account for the toxins some bacteria produce when they grow. I'm assuming, but I'm pretty sure that one walk-in didn't exclusively contain mushrooms and had other ingredients that were at risk.

Yes we stored other ingredients that would have been at risk, I was also worried about re-contamination due to the processing equipment we used and the process needing at a minimum 1-2 more days before it would be ready for the cook step. 

[GMO]

 

What would you have done?

 

I would, and have resigned in that situation.

 

Doesn't make me popular nor particularly employable. But ultimately I look at some of my ex colleagues in the food industry who are compromising their ethics often on a daily basis (these are people who make it to group level and just push down responsibility to plants then claim ignorance) or burning out if they refuse to do so. I'm not judging the former, it's the only way to survive in some businesses who refuse to change. (That's why I'm so passionate about culture now, I feel that it's the one thing actually pointing this out, albeit not well in GFSI standards.)

 

People say they all want someone to stand up for what is right and ethical until it happens. Then it turns out they didn't want it at all. 

 

Over the years I've found ways to cope a bit. Been the person looking for win / win etc. But ultimately if there's an obvious food safety issue you're being forced into a corner over, what can you do? You can't stay, not and live with it. It would eat you up inside.

[Hoosiersmoker]

Quit, get fired, or company goes out of business, it ends the same for you. I think you just saw the writing on the wall and went out on your own terms. Our QC manager would draft a statement to the effect that "I have been informed by (QC name here) of potential contamination of the ingredient(s): (lot and any coded information to specifically identify the product in question) and take full responsibility for any repercussions resulting in the use of those ingredients". He'd ask them to sign. If they didn't sign, he'd say I won't sign off on them either so the only thing we can do is destroy the bad product. And if they did sign, they accepted the total liability and he was in the clear.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how differently owners look at liability and their bottom line. They're willing to save $10,000 today, but risk a million dollar lawsuit or worse, a multi-million dollar class-action lawsuit, tomorrow. It's a conversation I've had with safety issues before: Me: "We need to add a new intersection forklift alert system at our blind corners. It'll cost about $15,000.00 for the whole project but we should never see a forklift vs person collision" Owner: "$15,000 is a lot of money. We've never had an incident there before, why do we need this now?" Me: "The risk has always existed, we've just been lucky. Also, here's an example of a bill for someone that's been hit by a forklift, it cost about $300,000 EACH and the second one wins you a visit from your friendly neighborhood OSHA inspector and all the fines that go with not addressing a KNOWN potentially deadly situation". Owner: "If you need more money just let me know!"

Edited by Hoosiersmoker, 05 March 2026 - 03:55 PM.

[GMO]

Quit, get fired, or company goes out of business, it ends the same for you. I think you just saw the writing on the wall and went out on your own terms. Our QC manager would draft a statement to the effect that "I have been informed by (QC name here) of potential contamination of the ingredient(s): (lot and any coded information to specifically identify the product in question) and take full responsibility for any repercussions resulting in the use of those ingredients". He'd ask them to sign. If they didn't sign, he'd say I won't sign off on them either so the only thing we can do is destroy the bad product. And if they did sign, they accepted the total liability and he was in the clear.

 

 

I saw a therapist for a while. She advocated a similar approach. I tried it but MUCH less aggressively than that. I ended up with the MD paying me to leave instead after getting thoroughly exasperated with me. In some ways that sounds good (and is a reflection of much better UK labour laws) but it wasn't. I loved that company and apart from the MD I'd still be there. He just wanted me to take all of the risk on my shoulders but also give him the answer he wanted to hear. It was untenable. Impossible.

 

But also not unusual.

 

And while places and leaders like that still exist, it creates food safety risk as a result.

 

I think things are gradually changing but not everywhere.

 

We cannot shoulder decisions we know to be wrong. That's the start and end of it.