13 replies to this topic

[Tcarpenter]

Question is concerning plastic limits in product.
Process has a screen that captures small plastic pieces
Most pieces less than small dot. 1.2mm in size.
Should product be placed on hold, and production stopped.
What is the risk?

[jfrey123]

If you're saying the plastic is pretty much always present and you're screening it to ensure nothing bigger than a 1mm is getting through every day, FDA could easily consider that adulterated.  If this screen is only catching an occasional fragment, then it's a process control doing its job along with all the other steps to try and eliminate this plastic within your process.  But if you expect plastic to be there in every run, and you're thinking it's fine that you're only passing smaller than 1.2mm bits to the consumers, then I'd dare say it's out of control.

 

There's the old and dated 7-25mm guidance, but just because it's small doesn't mean it's insignificant.  If it's sharp, then it is still able to cause injury.  

[Tcarpenter]

Thank you for the feedback. Couple of additional pieces of information.
1. We have a screen upstream.
2. No customer complaints concerning plastic.
3. We had tried to locate the origin of small pieces, once we think we have located the source a week later we will start finding a piece of plastic during the screen checks.
4. We have increased the screen checks to once a shift.

[MDaleDDF]

What's the product so I make sure not to eat it....

I agree with Jfrey and it sounds out of control.   The source of contamination needs to be identified and stopped.

[Scampi]

You can't declare plastic as an ingredient.......so it should not be present at any level

 

you ideally cease production entirely until the source is located and removed 

 

 

asking what the risk is is insulting to your customers it's akin to just saying, yes we know we have compromised our product, but its not important

[GMO]

I don't disagree that you need to find a source and if possible you need to eliminate that source.

 

But...

 

I'm just going to pull the pin out on a "let's be honest" grenade and chuck it in (hiding behind the sofa in the meantime).

 

When you have moving parts, scrapers in cooking vessels, cleaning equipment etc, you use plastic. There's no way you'd use metal because metal would cause metal filings. You know full well that plastic, regularly rubbing against plastic will only cause one thing to happen. And use those parts for long enough and they will wear down. I'm not saying this is right per se but where do you think that plastic goes?

 

So what if it turns out to be a paddle in a sauce kettle? What is "acceptable" wear on that paddle? is it only acceptable if you can't see it? If it wears by, say, 0.2mm per day not 1.0mm? Why?

 

(Ducks and waits for dust to settle.)

 

I appreciate that I'm being a bit provocative here but I think we stick our heads in the sand about this.

 

It's a bit like asking people if they'd swim in a swimming pool with a dead body in it. Most would say no. Then ask if they think there are dead bodies in the sea. Most would say yes. Then ask if they've ever swum in the sea. 

Therefore there is a concentration of dead bodies in water that you find acceptable...

[Scampi]

I hope your sofa is made of titanium

 

 

known contamination of any level should not be accepted

 

comparing dead bodies in the ocean where all sorts of living things die, is not remotely close comparison to KNOWN contamination in food. Anyone with a half a brain knows the oceans are full of decaying bodies and should accept that fact if they want to go for a swim.   Consumers most certainly do not assume their food A) contains bits o plastic (sorry) or B) would accept it if they did know

 

and there have been so many advancements in machinery and types of plastic that accepting it as status quo is part of the reason recalls have not come down with the introduction of GFSI

 

we are supposed to be in the business of continuous improvement, and shrugging your shoulders at a problem is ultimately the problem and why ALL of us now have to participate in audits against our food safety culture ( so thanks for that)

[GMO]

I know I was being provocative Scampi and I don't disagree.

 

But ok, go with me for a minute. You do know that pretty much every plant has plastic in the products right? And whether or not we want to admit it, we do accept that right now. But we only accept it when we can't see them or don't pick them up on a sieve. I'm being naughty in suggesting it, you know I am and I am completely in agreement with your approach as you can only do what you can.

 

Anyway. Sorry for derailing. I do agree with your point. Anything you find you need to investigate. But if some of the research on microplastics does become stronger in terms of pathogen virulence and health effects, I suspect this is a conversation we may come back to...

[MDaleDDF]

Sorry, hogwash.   There's zero plastic in my food, or plant.   Everything here is stainless and my md gets 100% of it.   You're trolling, lol....

[Scampi]

I've worked across multiple commodities......zero plastic in the FG  and we should NEVER just accept it         that is a VERY slippery slope

[G M]

Question is concerning plastic limits in product.
Process has a screen that captures small plastic pieces
Most pieces less than small dot. 1.2mm in size.
Should product be placed on hold, and production stopped.
What is the risk?

 

It is unlikely that this screen is your only point of FM detection, what do your other methods or processes tell you?

 

During washdown a large gouge was noticed?

We saw tiny blue dots on all of the product?

A part was missing and we assumed it was ground to a fine dust?

[GMO]

Sorry, hogwash.   There's zero plastic in my food, or plant.   Everything here is stainless and my md gets 100% of it.   You're trolling, lol....

 

Do you have no mixers with plastic paddles? No plastic scrapers? None? At what point do you replace them. Is there a "wear" stage? Or a "damage" stage when you'd even replace a cleaning brush. There is right?

I am trolling a little. But the reason why we use plastic, for, say cleaning, is because it won't damage the metal. By inference, it damages the plastic...

 

 

I've worked across multiple commodities......zero plastic in the FG  and we should NEVER just accept it         that is a VERY slippery slope

 

I'm not saying we should. I'm saying we already do.

 

But if we find it, then we should investigate it, find the cause etc. I'm just saying there's more in your products that you can't see. Already.

[MDaleDDF]

I am trolling a little.

 

Yeah, no kidding.  I believe you've hit par.

No, again, we don't use plastic paddles or anything else.   There's no plastic in my process, there's no plastic in my food products.  Proud to say.   My scrapers are stainless.  My machines are all stainless.   Until it touches packaging, it touches nothing but stainless.

I would encourage the op to take the same posture.   Plastic in the food you're selling to an unsuspecting public is not ok.   Whatever your process is, ID where it's coming from, and get it out of your food.
 

[GMO]

I've started a different thread as it is off topic but I do 100% agree with you Scampi, Dale et al. Find plastic, find the source of plastic, eliminate the source of plastic.

 

Read my other thread if you want to delve further into my wider concerns.