7 replies to this topic

[jfrey123]

TL;DR, am I in the wrong for requesting a supplier rectify a spec sheet vs the ingredient list they provide on packages?

 

 

I've had some issues with a supplier over the past few months, we buy 5 different cubed cheeses from them.  Long story is things were fine until our sales guy got in the middle of things, asked the supplier's sale guy for specs that brought confusion as they did not match what was on file.  Once we got through that error, we asked for updated specs to ensure that we had the most accurate versions and to eliminate confusion.  All seemed like basic stuff to me in my couple years of supplier management, no one ever balks at me asking about spec revisions.

 

They send us 5 new specs, and we found errors in the vitamin calculations on several of them.  They rectified that, and then we noticed one had a discrepancy in the Ingredients List.  For a colby cheese, their spec states: (Cultured Pasteurized Milk, Salt, 

Enzymes, Color Added).  The package label states (Pasteurized Milk, Cheese Cultures, Salt, Enzymes, Color Added [Annatto and/or Beeta Carotene).  Admittedly, I'm not a cheese guy, but a little searching seems to say FDA sees a difference in cultured vs non-cultured milk.

 

Regardless, one of my VP's has been asking me to get the supplier to correct the spec.  I made couple requests for this spaced a few weeks apart.  Today the supplier's QA manager handling these called me, and was clearly upset at being pestered again for this.  The person told me "significant resources go into making these labels," and went so far as to ask "Do you even have a regulatory person on staff?" and questioned why we were hung up on the spec not matching the label, stating there is no issue here from a compliance standpoint. 

 

I've just never seen a product spec differ from the label on the cased product, so I'm kind of surprised at the offended tone this supplier has taken.  Am I way off in left field here...?

 

[TimG]

Significant resources do go into making labels, and in generating and verifying the details before releasing a spec.

Which is why they need to be done correctly and be accurate.

 

Tell them you want to officially submit it as a complaint (if they're GFSI they better have a complaint handling process) and document it on your annual supplier review, IMO.

 

 

Our sales team has us generating like 5 new blend specs and 15 new products and the workload sucks, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to cross my t's and dot my i's because I don't want to have to redo them and I also don't want to cause a quality issue for any customers that might be relying on certain parameters of the spec.

[G M]

 

..  I made couple requests for this spaced a few weeks apart.  Today the supplier's QA manager handling these called me, and was clearly upset at being pestered again for this.  The person told me "significant resources go into making these labels," and went so far as to ask "Do you even have a regulatory person on staff?" and questioned why we were hung up on the spec not matching the label, stating there is no issue here from a compliance standpoint. 

 

I've just never seen a product spec differ from the label on the cased product, so I'm kind of surprised at the offended tone this supplier has taken.  Am I way off in left field here...?

 

 

 

After all the corrections you've had to ask for, it really makes me wonder if they have a competent quality/regulatory team themselves.  Having ingredients match specifications is a pretty basic and reasonable expectation.

 

That's the kind of thing that results in a recall when people get complacent and someone finds out later that the ingredients and labels don't match.

[Tony-C]

Hi jfrey123,

 

Impressive piece of customer service. Jumped up toe rag probably shouldn't have a job.

 

Should they match? Yes

 

Are they the same ingredients list? Yep, just someone has been lazy with the spec. and the label is more accurate.

 

FYI Pasteurized Milk + Cheese Cultures > Cultured Pasteurized Milk

 

Kind regards

 

Tony

 

 

[TbuitK]

I don't see anything wrong with the ingredient declaration. Like Tony says: Pasteurized Milk + Cheese Cultures > Cultured Pasteurized Milk.That said, if I were the supplier, I would simply explain this calmly to the customer. If that explanation wasn't sufficient, I would just amend the specification. 

[jfrey123]

Well thanks for the confirmation, all.  I was just shocked at the whole interaction and this person's annoyance at us requesting [yet another] discrepancy be corrected.  They ended up revising the spec and forwarding it to me before they went on their vacation, so all is well now. 

[Scampi]

Pasteurized milk is heated to kill harmful bacteria for safety and longer shelf life, whereas cultured milk undergoes a secondary fermentation process where beneficial bacteria are added to consume lactose and produce lactic acid.

[GMO]

Unless it's raw milk cheese, the milk is pasteurised, then cultures are added. Calling it "cultured milk" isn't something I'd personally ever do on a label but I'd see it as the same thing as "pasteurised milk + cultures". 

I read the spec and label and thought "those read the same thing". I'd personally not appreciate them not specifying they were sometimes using beta carotene and sometimes annatto and that should be clear on the spec in my view or at least both present if they're spot buying and it may contain either. 

 

The attitude isn't great to be honest, I'd have expected them to be a bit more kind in their tone and explained that they are essentially the same and even apologise because while they mean the same thing, they should be consistent.

 

You do have some odd questions sometimes with dairy though and dairy companies often supply everybody. B2B and retailer meaning writing specs, labels etc is just massive workload. So when you get what you might perceive to be a daft question, perhaps you just got them on a bad day when the list of questions from other customers was huge. Not an excuse but just explaining.

Some of my favourites when I worked in dairy were complaining that cheddar was arriving at too high a temperature, when it was arriving straight from maturation storage and the customer didn't understand maturation isn't at 5oC and kept trying to insist our specs should say this. The questions only stopped when the sales team got involved to explain adding a blast chilling step would delay orders and add cost.

 

Another was that they didn't want any rennet which had been made from microbes using GM technology.

"Ok, so you want animal rennet?"

"No, we still want vegetarian rennet."

"Ok. This is how they make vegetarian rennet... it doesn't mean any GM material is in the final product, the GM microbe produces the rennet then it's purified."

"My other supplier can supply vegetarian cheese without using that rennet!"
"Ok, you go back to them and ask them how it's produced, then come back to me with their answer."

 

No reply.

 

There's never an excuse for rudeness. But I'd just jot their attitude up to experience if I'm honest. Not that it's nice. I think it's just frazzled people who respond rudely sometimes. Or they're utter idiots who won't feel bad anyway so there's no point.