26 replies to this topic

[yorkshire]

We are all used to working towards certification against some standard or other (BRC, SQF, IFS, ISO......) but do these standards actually help us make better products, or do they get in the way of us doing our jobs?

[Simon]

Hello Yorky,

Let's face it most organisations work to standards and collect badges because it's a requirement of doing business in their industry. And when it's something you have to do the commitment of top management usually lasts about as long as the awards ceremony. It's not the badge or the awards ceremony that benefits the organisation internally, the quality and safety of the product or customer satisfaction, its good management systems and this is the responsibility of the Quality Manager, it's up to him/her to make sure business benefits are derived from standards and certification. Yes I think Standards in general are beneficial. Now certificates are quite another thing.

Regards,
Simon

[Puzzle]

Interesting.

Standards yes......

At the mo we are having a very large automotive project trundling through our business, our customer and the end customer (manufacturer!) both state all shall be proscribed automotive practices, ie APQP, PPAP, FMEA, etc.

Is it happening.....like heck.

We are expected to supply all of their information from the rubbish that has been thrown at us. And these are supposed to be working to certified QS (TS2) systems.

Our systems are more robust than what I am seeing at present

[Simon]

Sounds like you'd be better off taking that packaging job Puzzle - phew!

Regards,
Simon

[Gaskit]

I quite agree that it is up to the quality manager to "push the book" forward as to safety of product and customer satisfaction, but then there comes a time when after a number of years of working all hours god sends to achieve product safety and customer satisfaction, the system and staff actually run themselfs and poor old quality manager either has hours reduced or has done himeslf effectively out of a job.

Nice thing customer driven standards.

Regards,

Steve

[cazyncymru]

I quite agree that it is up to the quality manager to "push the book" forward as to safety of product and customer satisfaction, but then there comes a time when after a number of years of working all hours god sends to achieve product safety and customer satisfaction, the system and staff actually run themselfs and poor old quality manager either has hours reduced or has done himeslf effectively out of a job.

Nice thing customer driven standards.

Regards,

Steve

Especially when they change and you have to "subscribe" to get a copy of the new standards!!

[Sankara narayanan]

Why are we trying to get certification against some standard? If its only to have it
because all our competitors also have it or the customer demands for it, then one could feel the burden of carrying it. I feel even if one could implement 60-70% systems , one could gain a lot. One of the sentences in our company's policy statement says'.......our dedication and committment to achieving food safety shall have reciprocations at our homes and personal lives'. We certainly vouch for it.


Best Regards,

A Sankara Narayanan

[Charles.C]

Dear Sankara,

A very poetic policy indeed! Presumably not written by the Quality Representative.

shall have reciprocations at our homes and personal lives

Does this mean you are able to sleep more, less or just faster ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[Sankara narayanan]

A very poetic policy indeed! Presumably not written by the Quality Representative.
Does this mean you are able to sleep more, less or just faster ?

Dear Charles,

Glad to know you liked it. Auditor too liked it.


Honestly I believe that one can sleep pecefully, yes .

I can see the difference in some of the employees, the newly recruited ones(recruited during 22k implementation) are in the system to a good extent where with the old ones its a bit difficult to introduce new systems and maintain it.

I, for one, ask employees once in a fortnight to tell the policy statement word by word and how he relates it with his work. So far so good.... we have to wait and see how it is in the long run.....I am an optimist anyway....

Best Regards,

A Sankara Narayanan

[Simon]

I, for one, ask employees once in a fortnight to tell the policy statement word by word and how he relates it with his work. So far so good.... we have to wait and see how it is in the long run.....I am an optimist anyway....

I believe you take food safety and quality very seriously. I would have confidence in buying your products.

Regards,
Simon

[Sankara narayanan]

I would have confidence in buying your products.

Simon

I am flattered Simon....

(I'll have a sample of our product delivered to you.)

Best Regards,

A Sankara Narayanan

[Simon]

I am flattered Simon....

(I'll have a sample of our product delivered to you.)

Best Regards,

A Sankara Narayanan

If you're serious I would very much like that Sankara.

My address is here: http://www.ifsqn.com/contact_us.php

Thanks,
Simon

[GMO]

I think the standards if you really take time to work on them (not just 1 month before the audit but all year round) do really help.

For those of you in the UK though, I think the new Tesco standard is really going to drive some changes in standards. Tesco used to audit (PIU) without a standard, just a collection of COPs and Best Practices which didn't cover everything. Their new standard is very clear and quite stretching as well. I think it's going to be a challenge but because they're the biggest UK retailer, they will get what they want - don't do it and you lose business!

[GMO]

Sorry - can I just correct myself, actually Tesco always had some kind of standard, it was just bizarrely secret until November last year!

[Charles.C]

Dear GMO,

quite stretching

Interesting. Can you elaborate a little ?
Does this imply that the BRC standard is considered too lenient (ie not protective enough) ?
Or too unintelligible (certain sections are definitely ISO-like IMO) ?

Rgds / Charles.C

[GMO]

I just did a really long reply and then it kicked me out!

I think Tesco like to be a step ahead, especially in the light of the whistleblower programme. They have some areas which have to be implemented and some which are aspirational but knowing Tesco, that only means they really expect them too. There are some really high expectations like having alarms or auto closing chiller doors, CCTV outside, resanitising alarms, no temps in high risk etc!

[Charles.C]

Dear GMO,

Thks yr comments (and yr numerous posts ). Haven't had time to study them all yet.

Yes indeed, autosave can be a curse or a blessing.

No CCTV inside ? Makes a good coconut -shy for the end of the night shift

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

Sorry - can I just correct myself, actually Tesco always had some kind of standard, it was just bizarrely secret until November last year!

Where can we get a copy GMO, is it freely available?

[GMO]

Nope it's not freely available but it is on the Tesco Technical Library so if you are a supplier, you can get it there. I'd probably get shot for posting a copy mind.

[Simon]

Nope it's not freely available but it is on the Tesco Technical Library so if you are a supplier, you can get it there. I'd probably get shot for posting a copy mind.

No problem. We wouldn't want to upset the mighty Tesco. Seriously we discourage posting copyrighted documents for obvious reasons.

Regards,
Simon

[smaina]

hi,

I have seen it work at my place of work. I strongly believe it works.

Thanks

simon maina

We are all used to working towards certification against some standard or other (EFSIS, BRC, IFS, ISO......) but do these standards actually help us make better products, or do they get in the way of us doing our jobs?

[Simon]

I know the original question was relating to ‘standards’ as in food safety or quality. However the word "standard" itself means fixed, common, known and allows for more accurate repeatability. It might not be a good standard but at least it’s a known/fixed foundation that we can build upon. Without that foundation the house of quality and continual improvement is built on sand.

[Bhawani Gorti]

It is old topic but still feel to reply.....

Standards has nothing to do with quality of product. Following and implement the standard,keep system compliance and builds competency in sustaining the food safety management system. That is it.....

If company gets certification and fails to sustain the system then it is suicidal attempt for business.

 

if company follows standards and strict on implementation and maintenance of standard but does not go for certification then under such situation, company will sustain the food safety system that is what we all food safety professional are working towards........

thanks

[Charles.C]

It is old topic but still feel to reply.....

Standards has nothing to do with quality of product. Following and implement the standard,keep system compliance and builds competency in sustaining the food safety management system. That is it.....

If company gets certification and fails to sustain the system then it is suicidal attempt for business.

 

if company follows standards and strict on implementation and maintenance of standard but does not go for certification then under such situation, company will sustain the food safety system that is what we all food safety professional are working towards........

thanks

Dear Bhawani Gorti,

 

Standards has nothing to do with quality of product

 

Unfortunately the thread specified "standard" but never defined "Quality"

 

If company follows standards and strict on implementation and maintenance of standard but does not go for certification then under such situation, company will sustain the food safety system that is what we all food safety professional are working towards........

 

 

 

I think you are saying that implementing the content of FS standards prevents satisfactory achievance of a (HACCP?) food safe system. This is a rather sweeping statement with no further validation.

 

Rgds / Charles.C

[Bhawani Gorti]

Charles C

The Implementation of contents of Food Safety is facilitating or support more strongly the foundation of HACCP concept but not preventing HACCP. May be some misinterpretation of statement. 

thanks