19 replies to this topic

[Simon]

I know they're a bit pointless, but customers often ask for a Certificate of Conformity to accompany each delivery. I'm looking for an easy way to satisfy this. Can anyone think of a better idea than the CoC statement being on the despatch note. Also what should the statement say?

Thanks,
Simon

[Charles.C]

Dear Simon,

Must admit I had never heard of this specific item before however Google gave this as the desired format although I have no idea how rigid this is - I guess it depends on what you do with it ?? Import clearance, customer requirement only ?? -

http://www.standard....riginal/COC.pdf.

I guess the transmission option also depends on the above type factors also ??

Rgds / Charles.C

[KellyB]

Dear Simon,
What kind of products are you talking about, Simon?
Certificates of Conformity are usually required for electric appliances for example. Such Certificates are issued by a recognized certification body and is included in the package of the appliance.
Concerning foodstuff and relevant controls you can address to http://ec.europa.eu/...ed/index_en.htm
You will find the Regulation (CE) N 882/2004 on official controls performed to ensure the verification of compliance with feed and food law, animal health and animal welfare rules was adopted by the European Parliament and the Council on 29 April 2004, together with some guidance documents.
If this link doesn't work you can also check http://europa.eu/sca.../lvb/f84005.htm where you will also find the amending acts.
I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, anyway I hope this gave you some idea.
Still if you need further assistance, please be a little bit more specific perhaps I can find something to help you.
Regards
KellyB.

[Simon]

I was thinking of something a little simpler like a statement saying:

The products listed were manufactured and controlled by Company X BRC and ISO 9001 Certifed Management System and conform to all aspects of the agreed specification.

Adding this statement to the despatch note for example may negate the need for a seperate certficate to accompany the delivery.

Believe it or not some customers ask for such a pointless piece of information, does anyone else get asked for CoC's?

The product is packaging.

Simon

[MartLgn]

I was thinking of something a little simpler like a statement saying:

The products listed were manufactured and controlled by Company X BRC and ISO 9001 Certifed Management System and conform to all aspects of the agreed specification.

Adding this statement to the despatch note for example may negate the need for a seperate certficate to accompany the delivery.

Believe it or not some customers ask for such a pointless piece of information, does anyone else get asked for CoC's?

The product is packaging.

Simon

Simon.

If your customers are happy with that then go for it, the simpler the better but at the end of the day its the customers requirements that matter.

I know a lot of companies take blanket statements on delivery notes with a pinch of salt as nobody from QA or Tech has anything to do with it, a former supplier of ours used to have a QA box on the delivery note which was signed for the batches on the consignment.

One of our customers requires a COC to state that our packaging complies with the EU food contact directive, EU plastics directive AND the EU waste directive for each delivery of containers !

[Charles.C]

Dear Simon,

This looks more like you are seeking a fancy name for what is basically a Quality Certificate ?

On an official level, customers Letters of Credit occasionally ask for Weight and Quality Certificates to be provided, sometimes with explicit analytical requirements or sometimes left to the choice of specified / unspecified surveyors.
Alternatively, at the other extreme where the transaction is more like a part of an ongoing business relationship where both sides trust each other, a simple declaration may suffice.

I suspect you are vaguely in the middle and, particularly if the receiver is a strong adherent to BRC, yr idea may well suffice. Such systems are functioning for food shipments from Asia to UK however a further analytical report is also pretty standard. I guess the analysis part is more of a hassle for packaging ( but maybe not if in-house facilities exist ?).


No doubt you are seeking the minimum effort solution as you suggest above but it always looks a bit more impressive if you have some kind of attachment with numbers on it (eg thickness, bursting strength - surely there is some product spec.involved anyway ?).

As Kelly mentioned, there are several variables involved here.

Rgds / Charles.C

added - sorry Martlgn for repeating some stuff, you beat me to it

Edited by Charles.C, 03 January 2007 - 10:24 PM.

[Charles Chew]

Dear All,

While business exists all over the world, different conformity standards and approaches to providing comfort and assurance are practiced.

IMO, these CoCs are not likely to be worth any thing at all if they are provided on the Company's letterhead or as Martlgn had demonstrated how a QA Box within a Delivery Note is adequate to serving the purpose.

I would accept a CoC as valid only if it is provided by a registered and a professionally recognized third party inspector / tester / laboratory that stand liable to the content provided.

Frankly, why can it not be called a "Declaration of Conformity" where is should be used in the court of law as an evidence of conformity declaration that is legally binding if misrepresentation was extended.

On face value, CoC is given on a non-commintal basis (you can even get CoC valid annually) and its a "buyer beware" sort of but IMO, it boils down again to buyer verification and validation. However if a company is certified to BRC or similar, I would be happier to take it on face value.

Regards
Charles Chew

[Simon]

Thanks for everyones comments theyre all useful.

This company is a converter of non direct contact food packaging (labels) so although I know what you are saying Charles C. regarding analysis / numbers I think thats more of a Certificate of Analysis and a bit too much for what this customers is after. Results of internal production QC checks could be attached, but its too much trouble if not specifically asked for.

I think Declaration of Conformity is a better term for such a statement and the exact wording of the statement should be agreed with customer as Martin quite rightly says.

In light of that as a draft to send to the customer does this sound OK?

Declaration of Conformity:

The products listed were manufactured and controlled by Company X BRC and ISO 9001 Certified Management System and conform to all aspects of the agreed specification.

Thanks,
Simon

[cazyncymru]

I was thinking of something a little simpler like a statement saying:

The products listed were manufactured and controlled by Company X BRC and ISO 9001 Certifed Management System and conform to all aspects of the agreed specification.

Adding this statement to the despatch note for example may negate the need for a seperate certficate to accompany the delivery.

Believe it or not some customers ask for such a pointless piece of information, does anyone else get asked for CoC's?

The product is packaging.

Simon

Simon

to me that sounds more like a warranty statement. But i can't see why you can't use it.

C x

[KellyB]

Dear Simon,
I think all above replies give you some idea.
Since just labeling is concerned, I don't think you shall have any problem with the customer involved. Yet, some companies require an evidence of conformity concerning the ink used for printing (if it is safe as a food contact material for the unlikely case that it will come into direct contact with the food) and also for the paper used (that it does not rip off and things like that). Also the glue is important - depending on the surface that the label is on - because some materials could potentialy absorb it and pass it over to the food.
Finally, I think that the most appropriate person to reply to this request is the customer himself. If he is satisfied with the statement you give him, then everybody will be happy.
Hope this was helpful.
Regards
KellyB.

[Charles.C]

Dear Simon,

I presume converter means producer in packaging language.

I am curious as to whether the product spec. was as equally short as yr proposed "delaration" of conformity ?? If otherwise (or a blanket type guarantee), perhaps you should have some caution unless you are certain that this declaration will never emerge from a file to bite you. This depends on the customer relationship of course.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

Since just labeling is concerned, I don't think you shall have any problem with the customer involved. Yet, some companies require an evidence of conformity concerning the ink used for printing (if it is safe as a food contact material for the unlikely case that it will come into direct contact with the food) and also for the paper used (that it does not rip off and things like that). Also the glue is important - depending on the surface that the label is on - because some materials could potentialy absorb it and pass it over to the food.

Yes I agree Kelly but I think these things would be part of the agreed specification and be covered by data sheets etc.

I presume converter means producer in packaging language.

Yep

I am curious as to whether the product spec. was as equally short as yr proposed "delaration" of conformity ?? If otherwise (or a blanket type guarantee), perhaps you should have some caution unless you are certain that this declaration will never emerge from a file to bite you. This depends on the customer relationship of course.

No the product spec would be much more detailed than the 'declaration'.

[Charles.C]

Dear Simon,

OK. I think I get it now.

I guess you are ending up with a form of suppliers guarantee which we use for all our raw material supppliers (back covering of course) where the supplier signs off on a standardised document whereby he asserts (example) --- that all items supplied have derived from a factory approved for the production of food items by the Ministry of Industry using an approved HACCP control system and additionally certified to BRC / ISO9k2k standards. All products conform to specifications mutually agreed / signed by the seller / receiver which are held on record at both ends.
The only problem is that the documentation begins to get unwieldy when youve got 40 + suppliers and you need to update every year.
Our HACCP / BRC auditors also demanded such documentation but with additional validation data as per examples of individual lot data sheets showing conformation with the agreed specifications.
A similar situation also occurs in ISO 17025 for the laboratory media, analytical equipment etc.

I imagine yr customer is also validating his exercise of due diligence via this document.

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

Dear Simon,

OK. I think I get it now.

I guess you are ending up with a form of suppliers guarantee which we use for all our raw material supppliers (back covering of course) where the supplier signs off on a standardised document whereby he asserts (example) --- that all items supplied have derived from a factory approved for the production of food items by the Ministry of Industry using an approved HACCP control system and additionally certified to BRC / ISO9k2k standards. All products conform to specifications mutually agreed / signed by the seller / receiver which are held on record at both ends.
The only problem is that the documentation begins to get unwieldy when youve got 40 + suppliers and you need to update every year.
Our HACCP / BRC auditors also demanded such documentation but with additional validation data as per examples of individual lot data sheets showing conformation with the agreed specifications.
A similar situation also occurs in ISO 17025 for the laboratory media, analytical equipment etc.

I imagine yr customer is also validating his exercise of due diligence via this document.

Rgds / Charles.C

The Certificate (Declaration) of Conformity is meaningless really. It's not like positive release of the batch based on results of analysis and documented on a Certificate of Analysis or such like. But if it keeps the customer satisfied who am I to argue, once the statement is set to automatically print on the despatch note it is no work at all.

Regards,
Simon

[Dunaskin]

The Certificate (Declaration) of Conformity is meaningless really. It's not like positive release of the batch based on results of analysis and documented on a Certificate of Analysis or such like. But if it keeps the customer satisfied who am I to argue, once the statement is set to automatically print on the despatch note it is no work at all.

Regards,
Simon

Simon

We have had a 'Certificate of Conformity' statement printed on our delivery Advice Notes for some twelve years now (product is self-adhesive labels) and all our customers have been very satisfied with this format. See below.

"Certified that the product detailed has been manufactured and inspected in accoradance with the conditions and requirements of the Contract/Purchase Order and unless otherwise stated, conforms in all respects with the specified requirements"

[Simon]

Simon

We have had a 'Certificate of Conformity' statement printed on our delivery Advice Notes for some twelve years now (product is self-adhesive labels) and all our customers have been very satisfied with this format. See below.

"Certified that the product detailed has been manufactured and inspected in accoradance with the conditions and requirements of the Contract/Purchase Order and unless otherwise stated, conforms in all respects with the specified requirements"

Thanks Ian, I've gone for something like you have. Anything to keep the customer satisfied.

Simon

[Charles.C]

Dear Simon,

Reminds me of my old inspection reports which ended with the stock sentence -

"The above report and attached conclusions are based on data / samples taken at the time of inspection only and no resposibility can be accepted by XXX Ltd for subsequent deviations from the above."

Strangely enough, such reasonable disclaimers proved of little value when valuable customers had a problem.!

ie, in yr case, both ends are getting what they want, the interesting part is when a problem DOES turn up

Rgds / Charles.C

[Simon]

ie, in yr case, both ends are getting what they want, the interesting part is when a problem DOES turn up

I know. It probably won't even be refered to.

[mrfoodlaw]

didn't premier foods have a 'certificate of conformity' for their infamous batch of chilli powder?

Always best to analyse if possible I reckon

[Simon]

didn't premier foods have a 'certificate of conformity' for their infamous batch of chilli powder?

Always best to analyse if possible I reckon

Hmm yes I belive so Mr Food Law. I guess a single test is worth a thousand pieces of paper.

Regards,
Simon