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Wine_QT

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 11:00 PM

I'm wondering if there are some other Food Safety personnel on this forum that work within the alcohol beverage industry.  I've been the Food Safety specialist for a winery for approx. 8 years now, and sometimes I find I have to get creative or stubborn when answering questions from employees - (ie: We aren't a dairy, so we aren't going to kill anyone) or I have a struggle dealing with some external auditors as they don't understand our product (ie: no salmonella will not live in our product - due to pH and alcohol content - prove it?) 

 

Would be nice to bounce some things off of others who also understand the uniqueness of this "food" product.

 

Thank you in advance.



pHruit

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 07:41 AM

I'm indirectly involved in alcoholic beverages - do a bit of packing and provide a lot of support to clients in that area.

The "auditor doesn't understand the product" issue isn't unique to this sector; I've seen plenty of it where auditors have a higher-risk background and just haven't bothered to familiarise themselves with what they're auditing before they turn up...

As you say, it leads to some very weird questions about e.g. why aren't we doing much micro testing on an ingredient that is 90% ethanol :rolleyes:

Lots of people here with very good broad knowledge of many food safety areas, so if you've got questions then post away ;)


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davebobo

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Posted 26 May 2020 - 08:59 AM

Hi! I'm a quality coordinator at a wine bottling company and yes its taken time for our auditors to come to grips with our product 'type' but we have persisted and all is well!  I have found studies on the internet that support that no human pathogen will survive in wine.  I also find it a challenge to get staff to understand that although there is little risk to this product from a micro perspective (food safety wise, quality is quite another matter) that we still need a food safety system in place.  We have been accredited to the BRC standard for many years now and in some instances its overkill for this product type, however, it is good to have a high standard of hygiene and quality practices in place. Happy to discuss any ideas! 



davebobo

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Posted 20 April 2021 - 08:03 PM

I work with a non-alcoholic beverage company but I still understand what you go through



davebobo

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Posted 02 May 2021 - 07:56 AM

Hi, there's this friend of mine who's directly involved in alcoholic beverages that was complaining to me about a similar situation of @wine_qt and it was just not nice. yunno telling me how auditors don't understand some of the products and I just don't know why a problem like that keeps happening.

I don't work in your sector so I might not fully know how frustrating it can be. and yeah like someone on this forum said I have also seen studies on the internet where they say that no human pathogen will survive in wine. don't know how true it is Tho.



davebobo

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Posted 02 May 2021 - 08:36 AM

Hi, there's this friend of mine who's directly involved in alcoholic beverages that was complaining to me about a similar situation of @wine_qt and it was just not nice. yunno telling me how auditors don't understand some of the products and I just don't know why a problem like that keeps happening.

I don't work in your sector so I might not fully know how frustrating it can be. and yeah like someone on this forum said I have also seen studies on the internet where they say that no human pathogen will survive in wine. don't know how true it is Tho.

in fact, I don't even drink too much wine. I just try to order wine once in a while where I get wine offers. mostly this page; https://newbiedeals....welcome-offers/. it's majorly the discount that further encourages me to drink.



lorlandini

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 01:12 PM

Hi,

 

I have worked in the brewing industry and soft drink industry for the past 33 years.   Our brewery was a regional brewery and the workers were unionized.  I developed the HACCP plan for the brewery over 22 years ago.  It was a difficult change for lower level managers and supervisors and for the union employees.

 

Our first audit was by NSF and it was a nightmare.  I still remember the auditors name and how difficult he was to deal for our first audit.   We learned from that experience. 

 

I agree that pathogens cannot survive in the alcoholic environment and low pH, however, there are other issues that can cause health concerns.



pHruit

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 01:24 PM

Weirdly I've spent part of the weekend having the reverse of this debate with a would-be wine supplier, who was adamant that it's not "food" so doesn't need a food safety system, doesn't need a HACCP plan, doesn't need a recall procedure because "there has never been a recall of wine" etc. Which I guess must be reassuring for the various wine companies who've had to recall exploding/potentially exploding bottles periodically :rolleyes:.

Seems to me that there is probably a happy midpoint between "I'm an auditor from a high risk background and you obviously should be doing routine pathogens on your product even though it's 13% ABV and pH3.5" and "it's not food so we basically don't have to give a ****" :dunno:



MDaleDDF

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 01:31 PM

Weirdly I've spent part of the weekend having the reverse of this debate with a would-be wine supplier, who was adamant that it's not "food" so doesn't need a food safety system, doesn't need a HACCP plan, doesn't need a recall procedure because "there has never been a recall of wine" etc. Which I guess must be reassuring for the various wine companies who've had to recall exploding/potentially exploding bottles periodically :rolleyes:.

Seems to me that there is probably a happy midpoint between "I'm an auditor from a high risk background and you obviously should be doing routine pathogens on your product even though it's 13% ABV and pH3.5" and "it's not food so we basically don't have to give a ****" :dunno:

Well, a recall due to exploding bottles and a recall due to listeria as a food product can suffer, are two very different worries though. (One of my buddies that makes wine at home had this problem and destroyed the carpet in two houses before everyone else was warned to remove the offending bottles, lol.)

However, while it can't be argued it's not food per se, it's certainly a consumable and it would seem to need HACCP, etc.





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