Pre Opp vs Post Opp

HI all, going for SQF Level 2 8.1. 

1. Is pre-opp & post opp both needed. It says just pre. But I have got feedback from the consultant to do both. Do you use the same list for pre/post opp? 

2. Another question. If you check the trash has been removed on post opp- do you have to check it for pre-opp? I personally think so because things can change. Just wanted to get other feed back because this was questioned. 

3. Do you just check product contact surfaces daily? Do you check the washroom/ non product contact surfaces daily? Equipment will be exposed at some point in the wash room during the day. 

Not trusting the consultant too much eh?

All that I know and work with do pre-ops, some do end of day, after production ends.

You did not indicate your product, your shifts, etc - all would need to be known, does sanitation take place at end of day or is that another shift, etc.  

We have one shift. Our product is granola. Cleaning is conducted right after production on the same shift by the production team (no sanitation team).

 How do the end of the day workers get away we not doing a pre-op?

Well a post-op for a day would be a pre-op for the next day....

So a post-op is not much needed in that case. No auditor in my experience has asked about any pre-ops. 

The post-ops I think of are basically verifying sanitation was complete after a shift. 

i always thought a post opp was after production. The people went home for the night. then a Pre opp was before operational in the morning. 

i always thought a post opp was after production. The people went home for the night. then a Pre opp was before operational in the morning. 

Yes true but what I mean is that your pre-op for the next day could really be the post-op from the previous day. Does that make sense? Esp if you have one shift only.

We were always asked about Pre Ops - making sure that everything is functional, clean, etc. before production begins. We also have a post op as an extra added bonus, but we always get asked about the pre op for evidence. It came up in our audit just in October. 

Its important because even if people arent there, the conditions of the line can change. Maintenance items, pests, water leaks, etc can all occur without personnel being there. It can even be part of food defense - did someone break in or stay late and tamper with the line, raw materials, WIP? One of my plants had this happen in the past. Items would need to be checked again before production ran even if you have a post op. 

Yes true but what I mean is that your pre-op for the next day could really be the post-op from the previous day. Does that make sense? Esp if you have one shift only.

If post-opp can = pre-opp, then no need for two stages, correct ? And presumably also vice-versa ?

HI All,

 

Going for SQF Level 2 8.1. 

 

1. Is pre-opp & post opp both needed. It says just pre. But i have got feedback from the consultant to do both. Do you use the same list for pre/post opp? 

 

2. Another question. If you check the trash has been removed on post opp- do you have to check it for pre-opp? I personally think so because things can change. Just wanted to get other feed back because this was questioned. 

 

3. Do you just check product contact surfaces daily? Do you check the washroom/ non product contact surfaces daily? Equipment will be exposed at some point in the wash room during the day. 

Which clause are we talking about ?

2.8.1.= allergen management ?

I cannot locate "pre-opp" ?

11.2.13.5 in Cleaning! 

11.2.13.5 in Cleaning! 

Thks for clarification.  > Pre-op!!

I agree with Post 7 for usual daily scheduling. IMEX night-time washdowns tend to be done by skeleton crews but it maybe depends on the situation also.

PS - I note in sqf 8.1, 9, pre-op is solely mentioned in general introduction regarding the site audit although the above clause's word "following" is unfortunately somewhat ambiguous since strange things can happen in the darkness of night.

Well a post-op for a day would be a pre-op for the next day....

 

So a post-op is not much needed in that case. No auditor in my experience has asked about any pre-ops. 

 

The post-ops I think of are basically verifying sanitation was complete after a shift. 

ahhh, really?

As both an SQF Consultant and previous Auditor I always made myself present first thing for the pre-op... lot's of things can go clunk in the night between a post opp and a pre-op.

With the exception of someone running a sanitation verification (could be called a post op) I've always been on the pre-ops.

You've never had an auditor ask to see a pre-op?  I find that amazing.

A daily sanitation schedule is important to document, this would also be the time to discover any maintenance issues from that day. This would be "post op".

I think PRE-OP is necessary due to events that can occur while personnel are away, such as bugs, water, electrical outages, etc. From a food safety standpoint do you want to know your line is safe before you begin running product or after? Personally I want to know ahead of time to prevent rework, withdrawal or possible recall.

ahhh, really?

 

As both an SQF Consultant and previous Auditor I always made myself present first thing for the pre-op... lot's of things can go clunk in the night between a post opp and a pre-op.

 

With the exception of someone running a sanitation verification (could be called a post op) I've always been on the pre-ops.

 

You've never had an auditor ask to see a pre-op?  I find that amazing.

I mean to say post-op LOL. Sorry for the typo.

I mean to say post-op LOL. Sorry for the typo.

 yippie, I do more than my share of those, thanks.