Pira Seminar
Started by Simon, Feb 05 2003 08:52 PM
Hi all,
Pira International are holding a seminar called an 'Update on Food Packaging Hygiene' on 13/2/03 in Leatherhead. If you have a question you would like me to "ask the experts" post it here and I will do my best to get it answered.
Regards,
Simon
Pira International are holding a seminar called an 'Update on Food Packaging Hygiene' on 13/2/03 in Leatherhead. If you have a question you would like me to "ask the experts" post it here and I will do my best to get it answered.
Regards,
Simon
Hi Simon.
I think I have just lost my message so I will write it again.
Basically the quality manager and myself seem to be a bit confused on the referencing of the modified quality and new hygiene documents that I have produced.
I think that all the modified documents should be considered absolete and given a new
quality reference, whilst she thinks all the documents I produce ahould be given BRC/IOP reference and should not be considerd part of her ISO9001-2000 documentation.
Please help we are a bit confused
Thanks Aisling
I think I have just lost my message so I will write it again.
Basically the quality manager and myself seem to be a bit confused on the referencing of the modified quality and new hygiene documents that I have produced.
I think that all the modified documents should be considered absolete and given a new
quality reference, whilst she thinks all the documents I produce ahould be given BRC/IOP reference and should not be considerd part of her ISO9001-2000 documentation.
Please help we are a bit confused
Thanks Aisling
Hi Simon,
During BRC/IOP implementation,he HACCP team must deal with packaging issues , in relation with safety of the specific food products to be packed in them.
Therefore, in my opinion such a team must have at least one person who is qualified in food engineering /food technology/food science etc. with good background in food microbiology.
Shall appreciate your and Pira experts opinion.
Regards,
moshes
During BRC/IOP implementation,he HACCP team must deal with packaging issues , in relation with safety of the specific food products to be packed in them.
Therefore, in my opinion such a team must have at least one person who is qualified in food engineering /food technology/food science etc. with good background in food microbiology.
Shall appreciate your and Pira experts opinion.
Regards,
moshes
Hi,
Apart from getting the date wrong (I got down a day early and had to stay over an extra night - doh! went shopping in Guildford) the PIRA Seminar was quite useful. On the day there were several speakers from a wide-range of disciplines Kevin Swoffer (BRC), Terry Robbins (Sainsbury's) as well as speakers from the packaging and food industries. Some of the stuff was quite basic, more for people starting out on the road to certification, but there was also some interesting information on the development of the standard.
One of the most interesting was apparently there has been a lot of interest for the standard to be made available for non-food packaging. You may think it a bit strange but TR gave an example of somebody buying packaging for shirts - you wouldn't want oily thumb prints etc. on the packaging; the standard could be applicable; not for food safety but to assure hygiene as a key quality parameter. Companies applying for certification would, I'm sure, be able to exempt themselves from many of the requirements of the standard through the hazard analysis. It would work and they are looking at extending the scope of the standard in the future.
Also the standard is gathering pace throughout Europe and there is interest from Taiwan and India (and Israel) amongst other places; their vision is for the standard to be adopted worldwide and their message is that they are working hard to achieve this. It's a little easier for the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard as the BRC Food Standard is a couple of years ahead and its success throughout the world has opened many doors.
I only asked one question:
A reduction in customer audits and their high associated costs would be cited as one of the main benefits of BRC/IoP Packaging Standard Certification by most packaging companies. So far in my experience this has not been the case.
I basically wanted to know what the retailers (as instigators of the standard) are doing/saying to the food manufacturers / packers to promote awareness that ongoing compliance to the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard provides due diligence and negates the need for their own audits.
The answer was that it is very early days and as the standard becomes more widely adopted and better know throughout the food industry then the number of audits will reduce. In other words chill out!
Regards,
Simon
Apart from getting the date wrong (I got down a day early and had to stay over an extra night - doh! went shopping in Guildford) the PIRA Seminar was quite useful. On the day there were several speakers from a wide-range of disciplines Kevin Swoffer (BRC), Terry Robbins (Sainsbury's) as well as speakers from the packaging and food industries. Some of the stuff was quite basic, more for people starting out on the road to certification, but there was also some interesting information on the development of the standard.
One of the most interesting was apparently there has been a lot of interest for the standard to be made available for non-food packaging. You may think it a bit strange but TR gave an example of somebody buying packaging for shirts - you wouldn't want oily thumb prints etc. on the packaging; the standard could be applicable; not for food safety but to assure hygiene as a key quality parameter. Companies applying for certification would, I'm sure, be able to exempt themselves from many of the requirements of the standard through the hazard analysis. It would work and they are looking at extending the scope of the standard in the future.
Also the standard is gathering pace throughout Europe and there is interest from Taiwan and India (and Israel) amongst other places; their vision is for the standard to be adopted worldwide and their message is that they are working hard to achieve this. It's a little easier for the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard as the BRC Food Standard is a couple of years ahead and its success throughout the world has opened many doors.
I only asked one question:
A reduction in customer audits and their high associated costs would be cited as one of the main benefits of BRC/IoP Packaging Standard Certification by most packaging companies. So far in my experience this has not been the case.
I basically wanted to know what the retailers (as instigators of the standard) are doing/saying to the food manufacturers / packers to promote awareness that ongoing compliance to the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard provides due diligence and negates the need for their own audits.
The answer was that it is very early days and as the standard becomes more widely adopted and better know throughout the food industry then the number of audits will reduce. In other words chill out!
Regards,
Simon
ANSWER TO CONSUMER QUESTION - DOCUMENT CONTROL
Hi Aisling,
Without knowing your management systems intimately, it's a bit difficult to be precise as there are no hard and fast rules. So long as the documents within your systems are controlled and have a unique reference number/title, revision number, issue date and you have a system for ensuring that obsolete documents are removed from circulation and are archived or destroyed - whatever suits your systems.
In saying that I cannot understand why organisations split different disciplines into separate manuals e.g. quality, hygiene, health & safety, environmental - surely you want the operator doing the job to be continually considering all of the requirements. That's one of the problems with standards and certificates; companies set themselves up to meet the requirements of the standard and to demonstrate this to an auditor in a nice neat manual, but this isn't best for the business.
An example let's assume a company has ISO 9000:2000, OHSAS 18000, ISO 14000 and the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard - Would there be four seperate management review meetings? or would it be wise to have all four subjects on the agenda of one meeting.
A holistic approach is best and they call this an Integrated Management System (IMS). I will try and get some information for you (an expert was going to write some articles for the site I will have to chase him up).
Kind Regards,
Simon
Hi Aisling,
Without knowing your management systems intimately, it's a bit difficult to be precise as there are no hard and fast rules. So long as the documents within your systems are controlled and have a unique reference number/title, revision number, issue date and you have a system for ensuring that obsolete documents are removed from circulation and are archived or destroyed - whatever suits your systems.
In saying that I cannot understand why organisations split different disciplines into separate manuals e.g. quality, hygiene, health & safety, environmental - surely you want the operator doing the job to be continually considering all of the requirements. That's one of the problems with standards and certificates; companies set themselves up to meet the requirements of the standard and to demonstrate this to an auditor in a nice neat manual, but this isn't best for the business.
An example let's assume a company has ISO 9000:2000, OHSAS 18000, ISO 14000 and the BRC/IoP Packaging Standard - Would there be four seperate management review meetings? or would it be wise to have all four subjects on the agenda of one meeting.
A holistic approach is best and they call this an Integrated Management System (IMS). I will try and get some information for you (an expert was going to write some articles for the site I will have to chase him up).
Kind Regards,
Simon
ANSWER TO MOSHES QUESTION - HACCP TEAM
Hi Moshes,
You question was a bit too late for me to take to the PIRA seminar.
In my opinion the role you talk about, i.e. a person qualified in food engineering, food technology, food science - is much less critical in a packaging HACCP context. There is no doubt that the above person may add some value to your team, but I'm sure that if your HACCP team is multidisciplinary (production, quality, technical, engineering, warehouse) you should have enough skills to be able to identify the critical hazards within your process and rest assured bacterial / microbial hazards are NOT amongst them.
Regards,
Simon
Hi Moshes,
You question was a bit too late for me to take to the PIRA seminar.
In my opinion the role you talk about, i.e. a person qualified in food engineering, food technology, food science - is much less critical in a packaging HACCP context. There is no doubt that the above person may add some value to your team, but I'm sure that if your HACCP team is multidisciplinary (production, quality, technical, engineering, warehouse) you should have enough skills to be able to identify the critical hazards within your process and rest assured bacterial / microbial hazards are NOT amongst them.
Regards,
Simon