AIB as BRC certification body - why or why not?

I don't see why AIB would be any better or any worse than any other CB. They, like all others are graded as to their performance.

I've had AIB do GMP audits for 20 years. With the rare exception, their auditors are competent and very professional.

"Back in the day" the auditors were more forthcoming with training and suggestions when conducting GMP audits than they are now, but with GFSI, that's a moot point, since they are not allowed to train or suggest.

Yes, AIB has gotten some bad press over the last few years, but I would not let that sway you to reject them out of hand.

One of my auditors years ago was Stephanie Lopez. She took over as VP of Food Safety Education from Bill Pursley. Big shoes to fill, but she has done a great job. 

Marshall

Why not? AIB has a history and wealth of audit experience.

They also offer SQF certification, FSSC 22000 and ISO-22000 audits as well as BRC.

We have used AIB for GMP audits since the mid 90's and most recently used them for our BRC certification. Our experience has always been top notch. The auditors we have worked with are well trained, tough but fair, honest and personable. We have learned a lot along the way and credit AIB for a vast amount of knowledge and expertise.

The bad press they got over the past few years was just a reflection of our world today....."when something goes wrong, find someone to blame and try to ruin them." 

AIB does a great job!

We have used AIB for GMP/HACCP audits for a long time. We decided to use AIB based on their food safety training we have had in the past. We feel they do the best job (excellent trainers) and they have the best materials for training. Their auditors have always been tuff but also very good to work with and they know their stuff. I would also like to mention that signing up for the BRC was really easy with AIB. Very helpful people to deal with every step of the way. I would highly recommend AIB as your GFSI auditor. 

Considering using AIB. Wanted to get others thoughts.

Dear upstateny,

Did you have any particular aspects in mind or were you just looking for random comments ?

eg audit time, cost, friendliness,  etc

All accredited CB's are presumably competent.

Rgds / Charles.C

Hello Charles - just looking for peer feedback regarding reputation, perceived reputation by customers etc...... I understand all CB's should be similar thru the accrediation process but still there is that perceived image that could impact the customers view of the audit - your or anyone's thoughts?

Hello Charles - just looking for peer feedback regarding reputation, perceived reputation by customers etc...... I understand all CB's should be similar thru the accrediation process but still there is that perceived image that could impact the customers view of the audit - your or anyone's thoughts?

Dear upstateny,

It’s an understandable quest. :smile:

Unfortunately, some important parameters IMEX are rather unpredictable, eg some auditors will cheerfully offer corrective suggestions, others are permanently zipped. It’s the Name of the Game.

Reputation can be a very fickle characteristic.

Rgds / Charles.C

Hi upstateny,

I also am from upstate NY and we have used AIB for years for GMP audits and for the past 3 years for BRC. They were also the company we used to help us train and initiate our HACCP program. Everyone there has been very friendly and helpful. If I had any complaint it might be that they went a bit too easy on us. I'm hearing that BRC is cracking down more and that we should expect our auditors to be a bit more tough next time around.

Wow Hi SaltSafety and UpstateNY I'm from upstate (or western as we like to call it) NY as well.

I didn't realize we had a few new NY people around. :off_topic:

Back on topic:

Where I work we've had AIB audits for a long time.  I've never seen anyone have them as their CB but I don't see why they would be very different than any other CB.  Some allow you to choose your auditor some don't...  I would think AIB would have competent trained auditors.

In our company 3 months ago we hired the services of AIB for BRC certification, the truth is they are pretty good.

I'm still trying to understand the meaning of the (2013) Poll Question.

Apples and Oranges ?

I think that AIB's auditors have a distinct advantage if you are looking for a thorough floor-level audit ESPECIALLY if you are manufacturing baked goods. 

I think AIB has overcome their peanut butter debacle.  Their standard didn't survive it but their auditing services somehow survived.  There are many many 3rd party auditor companies.  I would think the larger ones are easier to deal with and have better software for their noncompliance responses.  That being said, I did work for a company that tried to use NSF as their 3rd party auditor for SQF certification.  The auditors report their findings to their supervisor, which I think is pretty standard.  The Supervisor disagreed with our Auditor's assessment.  So the Supervisor (remotely) over ruled the auditor with many years of experience and failed my former company.  So my company fired NSF and found a different 3rd party auditor.  I'm not seeing any stories like that about AIB in this thread.  

My experience with UK AIB auditors on BRC a few years back was actually pretty good.  Unlike other CB bodies, I suspect the muscle memory of spending so much time in plant was ingrained enough that they genuinely did.  My systems didn't get as thorough an audit as I'd had from some of the other CBs I'd had but to be honest that's not really where the risk is.

The only thing is the best AIB BRC auditors in the UK are or were close to retirement.  It's an issue across auditing CBs that they don't pay enough and conditions are rubbish so they're not attracting new and experienced "blood".  I wouldn't do it.  Not for how little they pay.  But I don't think it's just an AIB problem.

I think AIB has overcome their peanut butter debacle.  Their standard didn't survive it but their auditing services somehow survived.  

What do you mean their standard didn't survive?  They still have their own standards.  

My experience with UK AIB auditors on BRC a few years back was actually pretty good.  Unlike other CB bodies, I suspect the muscle memory of spending so much time in plant was ingrained enough that they genuinely did.  My systems didn't get as thorough an audit as I'd had from some of the other CBs I'd had but to be honest that's not really where the risk is.

 

The only thing is the best AIB BRC auditors in the UK are or were close to retirement.  It's an issue across auditing CBs that they don't pay enough and conditions are rubbish so they're not attracting new and experienced "blood".  I wouldn't do it.  Not for how little they pay.  But I don't think it's just an AIB problem.

I considered applying many years ago when I was between jobs. The more I looked at it, the less I liked the idea.

I tip my hat to the people that are doing auditing. The smart ones are private contractors who can at least make their own schedules and, assuming they are well established, can have some modicom of work/life balance.

Marshall

What do you mean their standard didn't survive?  They still have their own standards.  

My pharma customers told me they preferred AIB certification over GFSI, which is why I eventually took the facility certification in that direction. 

AIB is still out there pretty strong with their own standards, that's for sure.

What do you mean their standard didn't survive?  They still have their own standards.  

I could be wrong, it's been over a decade.  I didn't think anyone certified to the AIB consolidated standards anymore.  I thought everyone has switched to BRC, SQF, FSSC.  AIB's name was mud for quite a while and I remember that a certificate from them wasn't worth anything to a customer.  

People that don't need to be certificated to a GFSI benchmarked standard still use  the AIB Consolidated Standards (among others).

That's not the same thing as using AIB as a Certification Body, though.

AIB offers certification to BRCGS, SQF, FSSC22000 and IFS.

Marshall

I could be wrong, it's been over a decade.  I didn't think anyone certified to the AIB consolidated standards anymore.  I thought everyone has switched to BRC, SQF, FSSC.  AIB's name was mud for quite a while and I remember that a certificate from them wasn't worth anything to a customer.  

You are wrong.  It's a long time since the peanut butter corporation of America scandal.  The standards have been reissued since and are still used, particularly by US internationals.  I've worked with two companies using them since the scandal.

As a standard, if you want to have an audit of what is really happening vs your systems, I'd say it's better than BRCGS.  The scoring takes getting your head around but that's my only gripe really.

But this is a post on use of them to be a CB for BRCGS which they also are and are pretty good at.

I think people put off by the scandal miss the point.  Everyone makes mistakes and if someone is prepared to lie to your face, it can be hard to spot.  Until recently I would have said an experienced auditor would always spot it but some people are just REALLY good at it.  And I don't think other companies got anywhere near as much backlash for not spotting the horsemeat issues in the factory of origin for that scandal at the time.  Not in the same way.  I suspect it's because PB Corporation tried to use that positive audit as defence.