Baking as CCP

Hi,

 I need to validate baking as not CCP. My products are baked at 475 F for 15 minutes. I like to know the thermal death time of the following pathogens. Where can I get this info

You could consult the following site: www.combase.cc

It is a excellent database that allows you to make predictions

Hi,

 I need to validate baking as not CCP. My products are baked at 475 F for 15 minutes. I like to know the thermal death time of the following pathogens. Where can I get this info

Dear Konesh,

 I need to validate baking as not CCP

Most people have the reverse requirement. Typo ?? Please clarify.

What is the maximum core temperature of yr product ?

For validation purposes,  a typical requirement is a ca. 6Log reduction (aka 6D)  of the most relevant heat resistant pathogen in the food matrix. This is often a  legislatory requirement. Canada no idea, sorry.

The available reduction depends on species, z-value of species-matrix, core temperature, time, D value for species-matrix. Tables for Salmonella, L.mono. and a few others are linked elsewhere on this forum.

Frankly, based on yr quoted baking temperature, i imagine that the core temperature is > or  >> 80degC which would achieve a 6D reduction for 2 species mentioned above for many matrices.

Regardless, there are several threads here which argue that the baking step is not a CCP due to the logic that failure to reach the mentioned temperature yields a product which is visibly unusable and therefore would be auto-rejected, ie no hazard to the consumer exists.

Rgds / Charles.C

This one is going to be a tough one. It will be difficult to make baking a CCP because not all ovens cook the same and not every cake will cook the same and not every position in the oven will cook the same. USDA website has what you're looking for, I'm sure the CFIA will accept it.

Thanks Charles.

In Cold spot of the oven, internal temperature of product is 88.0 oC. This particular product has hazardous ingredients like cheese and egg. It is baked at 455 F for 10 minutes. Where Can I find the back up research article to back up when the internal temp is above 80 degree C all the listed pathogens are killed?

This one is going to be a tough one. It will be difficult to make baking a CCP because not all ovens cook the same and not every cake will cook the same and not every position in the oven will cook the same. USDA website has what you're looking for, I'm sure the CFIA will accept it.

Dear RG3,

Note that, so far, the OP wishes to make baking not a CCP.

Based on previous threads, the reverse is usually relatively easy although, as you mention, a temperature profile of the oven may be involved.

Rgds / Charles.C

Thanks Charles.

In Cold spot of the oven, internal temperature of product is 88.0 oC. This particular product has hazardous ingredients like cheese and egg. It is baked at 455 F for 10 minutes. Where Can I find the back up research article to back up when the internal temp is above 80 degree C all the listed pathogens are killed?

Dear Konesh,

I doubt that lethality data exists for many of the items on yr list. The point is that many of the species are probably irrelevant from a haccp POV.

Another factor is that for some species, eg B.cereus, spores are, from memory, not destroyed at the temp. you mention although the vegetative form will be.

You need to do a risk assessment on yr product (whatever it is) and specify potential hazards so that the following  hazard analysis is meaningful.

I suggest you do a quick search on baking or bakery in this forum since this is a popular topic.

Or maybe, as RG3 suggests, there is a model plan for USA/Canada which you can find.

So, are you wishing for a CCP or not ?? :smile:

Rgds / Charles.C

baking temperature is never a CCP but an OPRP, furthermore, it is a quality parameter indeed

Hi,

 I need to validate baking as not CCP. My products are baked at 475 F for 15 minutes. I like to know the thermal death time of the following pathogens. Where can I get this info

Interesting question for you.  What are you making and if it is not cooked at that temperature for that amount of time will you produce a viable product?

I saw this topic again and it reminded me of a discussion we had at my advanced HACCP course.  We had a baker that asked about this and because her product couldn't be viable if it was not properly cooked the instructor said it didn't need to be a CCP because contaminated product wouldn't be able to leave the facility as it would be a lump of garbage rather than the intended product.

Just a thought.

Dear Konesh,

Ultimately, I think yr quest will come down to RA however in respect to data can have a look at links below. First 2 are specifically for baking, 3^rd is general (most of links in 3^rd are broken unfortunately).

http://www.ifsqn.com...ccp-validation/

(eg posts 14,15,17)

http://www.ifsqn.com...reus-in-baking/

(eg post 2,3,6}

http://www.ifsqn.com...rmal-treatment/

Additionally data on the (non-viral) items 8,9,11,12,21,22 in yr Excel can be found in this text which exists as a Google book –  Microorganisms in Foods vol5, 1996, ICMSF. The same text also contains data on various viruses but limited relevance I suspect. (Bit old but still respected work).

The Combase link in post #2  also looked maybe useful but i found the site rather laborious to move around in, just a learning curve probably.

@ fcchoi, Based on previous threads here, can only comment that many haccp plans seem to disagree. It's subjective?.

@ Incognito, indeed, yr thought has generated many previous baking threads here but AFAIK, so far no consensus. (also see end post #3)

Rgds / Charles.C

Did you identify in your hazards analysis whether certain pathogens are existent, or will be introduced in the upstream process steps first? Think again before you start searching for times and temperatures.

Thank you

Thanks a lot on everyone's input on the question.

Konesh