Third party auditor behavior

Just completed our 3rd party audit.  We are a simple copacker facility, our customer provides all of the product and materials and maintains ownership of them.  We have been doing this for nearly 30 years.  This auditor was very different.  He wanted to see my document of the "17 required prerequisite programs".  17?  I have written over 30  because they make sense with our process.  Any idea what the "17" are?  He turned the audit into a game show.  He was going form employee to employee asking each person to name one.  

How strange. 

Audits should identify weaknesses and give a path to improvement.

Treating safety and compliance like a game show is incredibly immature.

I'm curious which standard you were audited against.

I would be reaching out to the certification body, especially if the auditor never explained the "17 programs".

Odd indeed.  I'd have shown him my Document Control Register that lists all of our programs and ask which PRP he'd like to review first.  I've never heard an arbitrary 17 number before, and places like to code/name their programs in all sorts of different manners: some get combined together where it makes sense in their process; others split out what are commonly bundled programs when, again, it makes sense in their process.

Hi KarrieC,

:surprise:

Sounds like an amateur/comedian, what standard are we talking about?

Kind regards,

Tony

If an Auditor ever pulled that crap here he/she would be kicked out of the facility and that would be the least of it. 

Wow very interesting and frustrating.  Not sure where "17" came from that just an arbitrary number, and that fact that the auditor went around questioning your staff on them, I can't image the looks they have this auditor, sound like a crazy person to me. 

Best of luck!    

I'd better get to work!   I don't have 17 prp's!

... This auditor was very different.  He wanted to see my document of the "17 required prerequisite programs".  17?  I have written over 30  because they make sense with our process.  Any idea what the "17" are?  He turned the audit into a game show.  He was going form employee to employee asking each person to name one.  

Very strange behavior.  How did the audit turn out in terms of non-conformances or scoring?

I think this is what the auditor looking for and I believe you have all the documents available in your facility.

1. Facility Construction and Layout: Ensuring the design and layout of the facility prevent contamination.
2. Supplier Control: Managing and verifying the safety of raw materials and ingredients.
3. Specifications: Establishing clear specifications for raw materials, ingredients, and finished products.
4. Cleaning and Sanitation: Implementing effective cleaning and sanitation procedures.
5. Personal Hygiene: Enforcing hygiene practices for all personnel.
6. Pest Control: Preventing and controlling pest infestations.
7. Receiving, Storage, and Shipping: Proper handling and storage of materials to prevent contamination.
8. Traceability and Recall: Maintaining systems to trace products and manage recalls.
9. Allergen Control: Preventing cross-contact with allergens.
10. Waste Management: Proper disposal of waste to prevent contamination.
11. Maintenance: Ensuring equipment and facilities are properly maintained.
12. Training: Providing ongoing training for employees on food safety practices.
13. Chemical Control: Managing the use and storage of chemicals.
14. Water, Ice, and Air Supply: Ensuring the safety of water, ice, and air used in the facility.
15. Labeling and Packaging: Ensuring correct labeling and safe packaging of products.
16. Monitoring and Verification: Regularly monitoring and verifying the effectiveness of PRPs.
17. Documentation and Records: Keeping detailed records of all food safety practices and procedures.

I think this is what the auditor looking for and I believe you have all the documents available in your facility.

1. Facility Construction and Layout: Ensuring the design and layout of the facility prevent contamination.
2. Supplier Control: Managing and verifying the safety of raw materials and ingredients.
3. Specifications: Establishing clear specifications for raw materials, ingredients, and finished products.
4. Cleaning and Sanitation: Implementing effective cleaning and sanitation procedures.
5. Personal Hygiene: Enforcing hygiene practices for all personnel.
6. Pest Control: Preventing and controlling pest infestations.
7. Receiving, Storage, and Shipping: Proper handling and storage of materials to prevent contamination.
8. Traceability and Recall: Maintaining systems to trace products and manage recalls.
9. Allergen Control: Preventing cross-contact with allergens.
10. Waste Management: Proper disposal of waste to prevent contamination.
11. Maintenance: Ensuring equipment and facilities are properly maintained.
12. Training: Providing ongoing training for employees on food safety practices.
13. Chemical Control: Managing the use and storage of chemicals.
14. Water, Ice, and Air Supply: Ensuring the safety of water, ice, and air used in the facility.
15. Labeling and Packaging: Ensuring correct labeling and safe packaging of products.
16. Monitoring and Verification: Regularly monitoring and verifying the effectiveness of PRPs.
17. Documentation and Records: Keeping detailed records of all food safety practices and procedures.

 

I think this is what the auditor looking for and I believe you have all the documents available in your facility.

 

1. Facility Construction and Layout: Ensuring the design and layout of the facility prevent contamination.
2. Supplier Control: Managing and verifying the safety of raw materials and ingredients.
3. Specifications: Establishing clear specifications for raw materials, ingredients, and finished products.
4. Cleaning and Sanitation: Implementing effective cleaning and sanitation procedures.
5. Personal Hygiene: Enforcing hygiene practices for all personnel.
6. Pest Control: Preventing and controlling pest infestations.
7. Receiving, Storage, and Shipping: Proper handling and storage of materials to prevent contamination.
8. Traceability and Recall: Maintaining systems to trace products and manage recalls.
9. Allergen Control: Preventing cross-contact with allergens.
10. Waste Management: Proper disposal of waste to prevent contamination.
11. Maintenance: Ensuring equipment and facilities are properly maintained.
12. Training: Providing ongoing training for employees on food safety practices.
13. Chemical Control: Managing the use and storage of chemicals.
14. Water, Ice, and Air Supply: Ensuring the safety of water, ice, and air used in the facility.
15. Labeling and Packaging: Ensuring correct labeling and safe packaging of products.
16. Monitoring and Verification: Regularly monitoring and verifying the effectiveness of PRPs.
17. Documentation and Records: Keeping detailed records of all food safety practices and procedures.

 

and the source is ?  :sorcerer:

I have 17 folders full of prerequisite programs, and most of them match his topic list, for RTE meats.  Do I win?

 

I think this is what the auditor looking for and I believe you have all the documents available in your facility.

 

1. Facility Construction and Layout: Ensuring the design and layout of the facility prevent contamination.
2. Supplier Control: Managing and verifying the safety of raw materials and ingredients.
3. Specifications: Establishing clear specifications for raw materials, ingredients, and finished products.
4. Cleaning and Sanitation: Implementing effective cleaning and sanitation procedures.
5. Personal Hygiene: Enforcing hygiene practices for all personnel.
6. Pest Control: Preventing and controlling pest infestations.
7. Receiving, Storage, and Shipping: Proper handling and storage of materials to prevent contamination.
8. Traceability and Recall: Maintaining systems to trace products and manage recalls.
9. Allergen Control: Preventing cross-contact with allergens.
10. Waste Management: Proper disposal of waste to prevent contamination.
11. Maintenance: Ensuring equipment and facilities are properly maintained.
12. Training: Providing ongoing training for employees on food safety practices.
13. Chemical Control: Managing the use and storage of chemicals.
14. Water, Ice, and Air Supply: Ensuring the safety of water, ice, and air used in the facility.
15. Labeling and Packaging: Ensuring correct labeling and safe packaging of products.
16. Monitoring and Verification: Regularly monitoring and verifying the effectiveness of PRPs.
17. Documentation and Records: Keeping detailed records of all food safety practices and procedures.

 

Found OP's auditor.

Then, of course, you have the unspoken and secretive 18th program: 'Foreign Material'   :ninja:

Riffing off the list posted by rroblesjr and bkrjones, I thought of a few more.

I wonder if these are included in the infamous SAFETY 17

Environmental Monitoring Program

Food Defense Plan/ Inspections

Glass & Brittle Plastic Monitoring

KarrieC, please let us know if they send you a list. I'd love to debate with this auditor (outside of my facility, of course)

Just completed our 3rd party audit.  We are a simple copacker facility, our customer provides all of the product and materials and maintains ownership of them.  We have been doing this for nearly 30 years.  This auditor was very different.  He wanted to see my document of the "17 required prerequisite programs".  17?  I have written over 30  because they make sense with our process.  Any idea what the "17" are?  He turned the audit into a game show.  He was going form employee to employee asking each person to name one.  

How strange. 

 

Audits should identify weaknesses and give a path to improvement.

Treating safety and compliance like a game show is incredibly immature.

 

I'm curious which standard you were audited against.

I would be reaching out to the certification body, especially if the auditor never explained the "17 programs".

He never did explain the 17.  Our audit went well I just wasn't sure if I should call him out on his behavior. Your response has given me the clarity to deal with this next time.  Thank you!

Odd indeed.  I'd have shown him my Document Control Register that lists all of our programs and ask which PRP he'd like to review first.  I've never heard an arbitrary 17 number before, and places like to code/name their programs in all sorts of different manners: some get combined together where it makes sense in their process; others split out what are commonly bundled programs when, again, it makes sense in their process.

I do have a few combined programs  -Foriegn materials covers glass, metal, debris, chemicals, etc.  each material is address in the program.  Our process is so simple (dry ambient, NonRTE, manufactured off site) we have a very small window for contamination, while packaging into smaller containers.  We are looking for any and all contaminates at that point; so why have 10 programs?  Thanks,  I thought I was incompetent,  but it was just the auditor.  

Very strange behavior.  How did the audit turn out in terms of non-conformances or scoring?

We scored very well.  He just made me question myself and made me look incompetent Infront of my boss. 

How strange. 

 

Audits should identify weaknesses and give a path to improvement.

Treating safety and compliance like a game show is incredibly immature.

 

I'm curious which standard you were audited against.

I would be reaching out to the certification body, especially if the auditor never explained the "17 programs".

Then, of course, you have the unspoken and secretive 18th program: 'Foreign Material'   :ninja:

that's one of mine, it covers glass, brittle plastics, metal etc.  

Riffing off the list posted by rroblesjr and bkrjones, I thought of a few more.

I wonder if these are included in the infamous SAFETY 17

 

 

Environmental Monitoring Program

Food Defense Plan/ Inspections

Glass & Brittle Plastic Monitoring

 

KarrieC, please let us know if they send you a list. I'd love to debate with this auditor (outside of my facility, of course)

Never got a list.  We scored well and I hope he never returns!  

Found OP's auditor.

we don't use water/ice or air in our process steps, so those are in my site assessment. leaving me with only 16 from that list.  combining programs, were appropriate  helps reduce paperwork and confusion.  

I have 17 folders full of prerequisite programs, and most of them match his topic list, for RTE meats.  Do I win?

yes!  WOW I'm glad we are Non-RTE