Quality manual: ISO22000 and ISO9001
Started by roberto, Apr 03 2007 09:15 AM
First of all, this is my first message on this forum - thank you for this place.
Prerequisites
Romania adopted EN ISO 22000:2005 as SR (romanian standard) 22000:2006; moreoff, Romanian food safety laws, adjusted by EU laws, demands for a company to maintain (implement, update, document, etc. ) but not certify food safety rules according to HACCP principles. A lot of companies had implement in the past HACPP principles guided by Danish Standard 3027.
My Company
Our interest area are manufacturing of edible and non edible cake decorations. Also, we are authorised wholesaler for major EU and USA companies, from this filed.
From this point of view, both ISO 9001 and ISO 22000 are suitable for our situation. ISO 9001 related to customer satisfaction and trade issues , ISO 22000 suitable for manufacturing area.
Costs
Of course, writting an integrated quality manual (iso 9001 and iso22000) should help us to be certified easy, for both standards. That's way, legal and audit costs will be lower.
Opportunity
My dilemma: both of trade activities (import and sale) and manufacturing are important. It's so necessary to implement and certify ISO 9001 too ? Same issue for ISO22000 certify?
Reasons not to do it: costs and an very complex quality manual (cross refferences and links to different standard requirements; records and documents which cover food safety issues and commercial issues, etc.).
Reasons to do it: low costs (in case we wish to certify separately quality management standard andfood safety standard), double area certification (target points: pleased customers and safe food).
In case to do it, is a good idea to have an integrated manual ?
Thank you in advance for your answers and excuse my poor english.
Robert
Prerequisites
Romania adopted EN ISO 22000:2005 as SR (romanian standard) 22000:2006; moreoff, Romanian food safety laws, adjusted by EU laws, demands for a company to maintain (implement, update, document, etc. ) but not certify food safety rules according to HACCP principles. A lot of companies had implement in the past HACPP principles guided by Danish Standard 3027.
My Company
Our interest area are manufacturing of edible and non edible cake decorations. Also, we are authorised wholesaler for major EU and USA companies, from this filed.
From this point of view, both ISO 9001 and ISO 22000 are suitable for our situation. ISO 9001 related to customer satisfaction and trade issues , ISO 22000 suitable for manufacturing area.
Costs
Of course, writting an integrated quality manual (iso 9001 and iso22000) should help us to be certified easy, for both standards. That's way, legal and audit costs will be lower.
Opportunity
My dilemma: both of trade activities (import and sale) and manufacturing are important. It's so necessary to implement and certify ISO 9001 too ? Same issue for ISO22000 certify?
Reasons not to do it: costs and an very complex quality manual (cross refferences and links to different standard requirements; records and documents which cover food safety issues and commercial issues, etc.).
Reasons to do it: low costs (in case we wish to certify separately quality management standard andfood safety standard), double area certification (target points: pleased customers and safe food).
In case to do it, is a good idea to have an integrated manual ?
Thank you in advance for your answers and excuse my poor english.
Robert
Do you spend enough time on food safety and quality improvement?
Salary for Quality Control Supervisor
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Dear Robert,
First of all, I'd like to say
I see that you want to implement both ISO 9001 and ISO 22000, but why you want to implement both. in my openion the ISO 22000 is enough to get the food safety mangement of your company (as I understand it covers both the management "ISO 9001" and Safety "HACCP"
thanks
M NEGM
First of all, I'd like to say
I see that you want to implement both ISO 9001 and ISO 22000, but why you want to implement both. in my openion the ISO 22000 is enough to get the food safety mangement of your company (as I understand it covers both the management "ISO 9001" and Safety "HACCP"
thanks
M NEGM
Welcome to the forums Robert.
I understand your desire to reduce the work involved in achieving certification to 1S0 9001 and 22000 but I think that although the 2 systems are designed to complement each other they are not meant to integrate so closely as to share a common manual,, 9001 requires a Quality manual and 22000 requires a Food safety manual. The Food Safety manual is likely to have a greater impact on your customers than a Quality manual. I think the best idea is to have 2 separate manuals each with their own focus.
I am pleased that you recognise that both standards have there own benefits, there is a temptation to see ISO22000 as a 'complete' answer because it is structured the same as ISO9001,I think this is a dangerous asumption to make as apart from the obvious benefit of safe products there is no other Quality management to be found in the standard.
I understand your desire to reduce the work involved in achieving certification to 1S0 9001 and 22000 but I think that although the 2 systems are designed to complement each other they are not meant to integrate so closely as to share a common manual,, 9001 requires a Quality manual and 22000 requires a Food safety manual. The Food Safety manual is likely to have a greater impact on your customers than a Quality manual. I think the best idea is to have 2 separate manuals each with their own focus.
I am pleased that you recognise that both standards have there own benefits, there is a temptation to see ISO22000 as a 'complete' answer because it is structured the same as ISO9001,I think this is a dangerous asumption to make as apart from the obvious benefit of safe products there is no other Quality management to be found in the standard.
BUMP: Any other ideas on this?
Well, i'm starting develop an integrated manual (quality and food safety manual).
Takin' both standards, i wrote first of all manual content.
Every ISO 9001 clause is adjust/complete/documented with food safety requirements.
For example, ISO 9001 5.5.3 "Internal communication" became "Internal and external communication", in order to fullfill ISO 22000 5.6.2 clause, too.
The entire chapter 5 - Management requirements - is the one used for ISO 9001 quality manual, and, ISO 22000 5.6.2 "external communication" , and, ISO 22000 5.7 "...emergency...".
Of course, management representative could act as food safety team chief. A little atention, fullfill all clauses ... and i think it will works.
Thereoff, is not so hard to complete a quality manual with ISO 22000 food safety requirements.
That's a natural decission for our small company, where import & trade and manufacturing activities are almost equal in terms of impact or importance. Perhaps, for manufacturing oriented companies, two manuals are the best decision (quality manual and a GMP).
Robert
Takin' both standards, i wrote first of all manual content.
Every ISO 9001 clause is adjust/complete/documented with food safety requirements.
For example, ISO 9001 5.5.3 "Internal communication" became "Internal and external communication", in order to fullfill ISO 22000 5.6.2 clause, too.
The entire chapter 5 - Management requirements - is the one used for ISO 9001 quality manual, and, ISO 22000 5.6.2 "external communication" , and, ISO 22000 5.7 "...emergency...".
Of course, management representative could act as food safety team chief. A little atention, fullfill all clauses ... and i think it will works.
Thereoff, is not so hard to complete a quality manual with ISO 22000 food safety requirements.
That's a natural decission for our small company, where import & trade and manufacturing activities are almost equal in terms of impact or importance. Perhaps, for manufacturing oriented companies, two manuals are the best decision (quality manual and a GMP).
Robert
Well, i'm starting develop an integrated manual (quality and food safety manual).
Takin' both standards, i wrote first of all manual content.
Every ISO 9001 clause is adjust/complete/documented with food safety requirements.
For example, ISO 9001 5.5.3 "Internal communication" became "Internal and external communication", in order to fullfill ISO 22000 5.6.2 clause, too.
The entire chapter 5 - Management requirements - is the one used for ISO 9001 quality manual, and, ISO 22000 5.6.2 "external communication" , and, ISO 22000 5.7 "...emergency...".
Of course, management representative could act as food safety team chief. A little atention, fullfill all clauses ... and i think it will works.
Thereoff, is not so hard to complete a quality manual with ISO 22000 food safety requirements.
That's a natural decission for our small company, where import & trade and manufacturing activities are almost equal in terms of impact or importance. Perhaps, for manufacturing oriented companies, two manuals are the best decision (quality manual and a GMP).
Robert
Dear Roberto,
This was what I have done. Actually we have already had "HACCP included ISO 9001" certification. So it wasn't difficult to integrate ISO 22000 into actual manual.
Regards,
Selmin
Hello Roberto:
Just to share with you. My friend even incorporate ISO 9001, HACCP, BRC and ISO 18001 into one manual.
Just to share with you. My friend even incorporate ISO 9001, HACCP, BRC and ISO 18001 into one manual.
To have an integrated Manual is a very useful tool to:
1.- Describe the structure of the FSMS and QMS,
2.- To document the scope of the FSMS,
3.- To document the Food Safety Policy and their objectives,
4.- To documents which PRP’s and Code of practices are adopted,
5.- To establish the HACCP team and their responsibilities.
1.- Describe the structure of the FSMS and QMS,
2.- To document the scope of the FSMS,
3.- To document the Food Safety Policy and their objectives,
4.- To documents which PRP’s and Code of practices are adopted,
5.- To establish the HACCP team and their responsibilities.
Dera All,
I do understand every one want to reduce the documentation and it is good to have a intigrated system ,I am for it. I still feel sometime bogeled down when persons Why should we have ISO9001 if we are going for ISO22000. Well My answer to them is If any one is going for EMS ISO14001 then do they need ISO9001 or not? The answer is all are Stand alone standerds and can be developed seperatly and the organisation has to deside what they want . Overall improvement and satisfy the Customers then ISO9001 is enough If the organisation wants to address the Environmental issues then ISO14001 and if the organisation is aiming to proove its product safety on the consumer health then ISO22000, further there are commen requirements in all they are Management Requirements just because of this we can not leave one standerd for other. More over If you see properly the ISO22000 standard in the documentation requirement you will see that There is NO REQUIREMNT FOR FSMS MANUAL LIKE FOR EMS AND QMS.
APPAJI
I do understand every one want to reduce the documentation and it is good to have a intigrated system ,I am for it. I still feel sometime bogeled down when persons Why should we have ISO9001 if we are going for ISO22000. Well My answer to them is If any one is going for EMS ISO14001 then do they need ISO9001 or not? The answer is all are Stand alone standerds and can be developed seperatly and the organisation has to deside what they want . Overall improvement and satisfy the Customers then ISO9001 is enough If the organisation wants to address the Environmental issues then ISO14001 and if the organisation is aiming to proove its product safety on the consumer health then ISO22000, further there are commen requirements in all they are Management Requirements just because of this we can not leave one standerd for other. More over If you see properly the ISO22000 standard in the documentation requirement you will see that There is NO REQUIREMNT FOR FSMS MANUAL LIKE FOR EMS AND QMS.
APPAJI
Do users of ISO 22000 agree with this statement?There is NO REQUIREMNT FOR FSMS MANUAL LIKE FOR EMS AND QMS.
APPAJI
Yes, there is NO REQUIREMENT FOR FSMS MANUAL LIKE FOR EMS AND QMS not if it is there it is very easy to get through. This is our experience when we go for ISO 22000.
Lalith
Lalith
Thanks Lalith.Yes, there is NO REQUIREMENT FOR FSMS MANUAL LIKE FOR EMS AND QMS not if it is there it is very easy to get through. This is our experience when we go for ISO 22000.
Lalith
Do you spend enough time on food safety and quality improvement?
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