Who understands the law?
Started by foodmanuk, Feb 23 2008 08:23 PM
In the EC and the UK we have a great deal of legislation - Hooray! But what drives me crazy and perhaps dangerously confuses me is that the legislation may be amended repeatedly over a number of years but these changes are not consolidated into a single new document. The net result is that the reader 1stly needs to know that a piece of law has been amended and then needs the mental flexibility to be able to work out where and what has changed.
The original rational for this was to allow the supplements to be added to the back of a printed copy. Now in the 21st C no body does this, we all work on PC's. Could we lobby our legislators to issue consolidated texts for all changes? This would make it easier for us Food Profesionals, who are not all lawyers.
What do you guys think?
The original rational for this was to allow the supplements to be added to the back of a printed copy. Now in the 21st C no body does this, we all work on PC's. Could we lobby our legislators to issue consolidated texts for all changes? This would make it easier for us Food Profesionals, who are not all lawyers.
What do you guys think?
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Offering a tape measure up against the wall of silence I deduce the answer to be - not that many, if any. Certainly not me anyway. That said I'm all for improving and simplifying things, so I'm backing you all the way FMUK. How would we go about something like that?Who understands the law?
Regards,
Simon
Hello foodmanuk,
Agree with you! Not easy to be in the loop and to maintain our knowledges according to legislation...Knowing whichone you have to apply, national or EU requirements...
Unfortunately when you're in charge of quality in a little factory, it's difficult for you to require some up-dated datas - it often costs a lot.
1 point : it depends on a lot of things, but your food inspectors are able to help you to understand the rules you have to apply, to follow evolution of legislation too.
Hope that helps - and agree with you about real difficulties for all of us about legislation!
Regards,
Emmanuel.
Agree with you! Not easy to be in the loop and to maintain our knowledges according to legislation...Knowing whichone you have to apply, national or EU requirements...
Unfortunately when you're in charge of quality in a little factory, it's difficult for you to require some up-dated datas - it often costs a lot.
1 point : it depends on a lot of things, but your food inspectors are able to help you to understand the rules you have to apply, to follow evolution of legislation too.
Hope that helps - and agree with you about real difficulties for all of us about legislation!
Regards,
Emmanuel.
On a similar thread. Let's say you are a company based in the UK, but you export all over the world. Ok you should be up to date with the EU legislation that applies to your products, but how on earth do you ensure you comply with the relevant legislation in other regions of the world you supply. Is it your responsibility as the supplier or your customers?
Regards,
Simon
Regards,
Simon
I think that's why we have this forum.
You could create your legal network here.
I know about Chinese PRC regulations, Hong Kong and Macau S.A.R. as well as Portugal and EU. What about you and all the other forum members? With a few dozen you probably be able to build a world team on food regulation. Besides, matters of dispute under the WTO agreements follow Codex Standards. Further, any measure taken in an international dispute must be based in sound science and cannot be more restrictive than the standard defined by the SPSS agreement that may have been ratified by a member estate. In legal terms comparative law deals with this kind of situation. However, what has been mentioned on amending laws is only applicable for the common law system. Under the civil law documents are compiled with the new amendments and publish as one only. In Portugal if I recall correctly there is a database where you can browse and search for the related legal documents towards a certain food item.
You could create your legal network here.
I know about Chinese PRC regulations, Hong Kong and Macau S.A.R. as well as Portugal and EU. What about you and all the other forum members? With a few dozen you probably be able to build a world team on food regulation. Besides, matters of dispute under the WTO agreements follow Codex Standards. Further, any measure taken in an international dispute must be based in sound science and cannot be more restrictive than the standard defined by the SPSS agreement that may have been ratified by a member estate. In legal terms comparative law deals with this kind of situation. However, what has been mentioned on amending laws is only applicable for the common law system. Under the civil law documents are compiled with the new amendments and publish as one only. In Portugal if I recall correctly there is a database where you can browse and search for the related legal documents towards a certain food item.
Zepinto, I'm sure we do have much of the knowledge at the forums now; the question is how do we encourage members to share that knowledge and how would the information be presented / stored for reference. Also how would the information be validated and kept up to date (bearing in mind Foodmanuk’s comments). It’s open to discussion.
I just checked and we’ve been online now for 6 years. This really surprised me (time flies when you’re having fun). Being the forums administrator I have a good handle on how well the forums are developing in terms of the number of new members joining and numbers of post etc. I have to say we seem to have started the flywheel turning on both. I am now seeing around 10 new members registering every day and they really are from every corner of the globe. I believe this place has a future. I still cannot believe six years have passed by. Anyway I just thought I’d share that.
Regards,
Simon
I just checked and we’ve been online now for 6 years. This really surprised me (time flies when you’re having fun). Being the forums administrator I have a good handle on how well the forums are developing in terms of the number of new members joining and numbers of post etc. I have to say we seem to have started the flywheel turning on both. I am now seeing around 10 new members registering every day and they really are from every corner of the globe. I believe this place has a future. I still cannot believe six years have passed by. Anyway I just thought I’d share that.
Regards,
Simon
Hello Zepinto,
Ok with you and Simon about IFSQN; but how can you demonstrate you're in line with legislation saying you're on IFSQN, because we do not have any requirements to be right with legislation - '''just''' a discussion forum, not a regulatory reference. Therefore in case of issues with your customer, it would be quite difficult to explain...
Concerning this point I think IFSQN is able to be a very precious support, thanks to variety Simon explained very well, to understand some regulatory interpretations, but keeping in touch with legislation means to have other sources.
Simon, I just want to add something else, you're in a right way with the forum, thanks a lot and go on!
Best regards,
Emmanuel.
Ok with you and Simon about IFSQN; but how can you demonstrate you're in line with legislation saying you're on IFSQN, because we do not have any requirements to be right with legislation - '''just''' a discussion forum, not a regulatory reference. Therefore in case of issues with your customer, it would be quite difficult to explain...
Concerning this point I think IFSQN is able to be a very precious support, thanks to variety Simon explained very well, to understand some regulatory interpretations, but keeping in touch with legislation means to have other sources.
Simon, I just want to add something else, you're in a right way with the forum, thanks a lot and go on!
Best regards,
Emmanuel.
I agree; it is not possible to keep up, it requires huge resources.Ok with you and Simon about IFSQN; but how can you demonstrate you're in line with legislation saying you're on IFSQN, because we do not have any requirements to be right with legislation - '''just''' a discussion forum, not a regulatory reference. Therefore in case of issues with your customer, it would be quite difficult to explain...
Concerning this point I think IFSQN is able to be a very precious support, thanks to variety Simon explained very well, to understand some regulatory interpretations, but keeping in touch with legislation means to have other sources.
Simon, I just want to add something else, you're in a right way with the forum, thanks a lot and go on!
Thanks Emmanuel, I keep trying.
Regards,
Simon
Dear All,
In case anyone wishes to experiment, there is at least one portal which is attempting to sort of provide services of the kind discussed in this thread (and more) -
(also has been part funded by USFDA)
Certainly contains a rather amazing list of countries.
Rgds / Charles.C
In case anyone wishes to experiment, there is at least one portal which is attempting to sort of provide services of the kind discussed in this thread (and more) -
http://www.ipfsaph.org/En/default.jspDeveloped by FAO, and in association with the organizations responsible for international standard setting in sanitary and phytosanitary matters, this portal provides a single access point for authorized official international and national information across the sectors of food safety, animal and plant health. View list of member countries of Codex, IPPC, OIE and WTO.
(also has been part funded by USFDA)
Certainly contains a rather amazing list of countries.
Rgds / Charles.C