Confused about 7.3.3.1 - what is "origin"

I'm beverage company. I working in Packaging Dept. Now i confuse about iso 22000



1. I'd like to know what that mean "origin" .

i don't know that mean origin of our Raw material or a origin of composite of our Raw material

Ex.

Raw material - Metal Can <<< making in Thailand

b) composition - Aluminuum coils / Lacquer(inside) / Vanish (outside) / Prining Ink
that consit of 4 raw material that import from many country

Please let me know what that I fill in c) origin ( Thailand or many country)


2. Could I must to fill supplier name in this part That clause i have 3 supplier . they have slightly difference Ex. d) method of production; e) packaging and delivery methods; f) storage conditions and shelf life

could i separate 7.3.3.1 for many supplier?

Hi Oatmax

the '22000 standart says '

All raw materials, ingredients and product-contact materials shall be described in documents to the extent needed to conduct the hazard analysis (see 7.4), including the following, as appropriate:

a), b), c)origin, d),...........

in my opinion origin of All raw materials, ingredients and product-contact materials can not descibe everytime so it says as appropriate. the origin of fruit, vegetable islogical but metal can' s origin is not logical. for example we can say this vegetable from these place or area.

does anyone have any comment?

Oatmax:

Well i think you should try to get information about the origin of the material of the cans with your supplier(s). Is your supplier able to track the origin of their raw materials? It´s important to have information for traceability and to consider any hazard inherent to your materials, like toxic metals in Aluminuum coils, not sure, but maybe solvents in Lacquer (being this one the most important because is the layer that will be in contact with your product).

Regards,

FSSM

Please,give me an answer!

I'd like to know, Do I input data in 7.3.3.1 for many suppliers? clause i have few supplier for every packaging

Thank

OATMAX

Dear oatmax,

We receive cans too. We consider (metal cans) origin as the manufacturer and plant location. We do it that way for two reasons:

1. You can receive cans from the same manufacturer but from different locations. When you do a Hazard analysis, you must check every plant from the manufacturer for a given product. As an example, One line can have a pressure tester in the canmaking facility and another don't (for three piece cans), so pinhole risnk is bigger in the one that doesn't have the tester as they do not test 100% of the cans.

2. In order to approve suppliers when we ask for information about the product, we validate supplier plant, then product and add them on the APPROVED MATERIALS/ SUPPLIERS LIST, where we hav registered the approved material to ease the incoming inspection. If it's not on the list, It cannot go in immediately, and QC stops the material.

Hope that helps

Regards

Horacio

Dear oatmax,

We receive cans too. We consider (metal cans) origin as the manufacturer and plant location. We do it that way for two reasons:

1. You can receive cans from the same manufacturer but from different locations. When you do a Hazard analysis, you must check every plant from the manufacturer for a given product. As an example, One line can have a pressure tester in the canmaking facility and another don't (for three piece cans), so pinhole risnk is bigger in the one that doesn't have the tester as they do not test 100% of the cans.

2. In order to approve suppliers when we ask for information about the product, we validate supplier plant, then product and add them on the APPROVED MATERIALS/ SUPPLIERS LIST, where we hav registered the approved material to ease the incoming inspection. If it's not on the list, It cannot go in immediately, and QC stops the material.

Hope that helps

Regards

Horacio

Thank, That help me so much

but I have 1 question?

My company is beverage company. I working for PACKAGING Dept. Ex. CSD can are composit two packaging (Can body and Can End). I buying it from 3 supplier.

Could you tell me "origin" is my supplier
(who making Can body and Can End for me )

or

Sub supplier who making raw material for my supplier
(who making Alu coil, Varnish, Internal Lacquer ,Printing Ink)


I'd like to know this point.

OATMAX,

Dear oatmax,

This looks analogous to the standard HACCP requirement for "approval" of all significant inputs to yr process, eg for labels, approval of the ink supplier is required, for plastic bags similarly for manufacturer of plastic pellets, ie it's necessary to follow the process tree to the root.
Sometimes IMEX this ends up with an impracticality, eg marine seafood to the fishing vessel so that a compromise may hv to be made by going up one level.

As indicated earlier, you hv to risk evaluate yr particular process as far as is appropriate.

Rgds / Charles.C

Oatmax:

IMO, origin will be your immediate supplier. But please ask your supplier about how they track the origin of their materials.

Regards,

FSSM

Agree with FSSM and Charles.

Just ask them if they have an HACCP, and traceability information.

Regards

Dear oatmax,

Nice to see your query on the forum. Actually ISO22000 talks about the safety in the whole food chain. If you will read the introduction part (Part 1) of standard it clearly wants the ultimate food processors to take the responsibility of safety of the food which has been produced or processed by them.

In this scenario, ISO22000 requires you to at least KNOW the origin of your raw material, ingredients and product contact materials. The reason behind that is, whenever a food safety incident or outbreak will occur in that particular COUNTRY of origin, you will definitely be more conscious in your monitoring actions on that particular raw material, ingredient or product contact material, as it has been ORIGINATED from a suspected country.

Same goes with the method of processing. I dont know what is the nature of your suppliers but i faced the same problem with my supplier of product contact material. I forwarded the query regarding the method of production and they responded with only STEPS of processing

This can fulfill the requirements of ISO2200 as per my knowledge because you have to look on the whole that the type of process used to manufacture your raw material, ingredient or product contact material is hazardous (regarding food safety) or not...

In short, you have to take maximum responsibility of safety of your product as it contains your name on the package and not of your suppliers. No one knows your supplier but if any thing goes wrong, government, regulatory bodies and customers will blame you.

So you shall get maximum possible information regarding your raw material, ingredients and product contact material in order to proceed with the hazard analysis (Clause 7.4)



Regards
Siraj