Frozen vs freshly cooked rice

Apologies, I posted this in the wrong firum earlier.

Hi

Any feedback/advice is appreciated.

We are looking at the manufacture of ready to heat curry meals in single portion pots.

We will cook the protein part (chicken, prawn, dahl etc), add it to the pot when hot and then add the rice on top while the protein is still hot, then close the pot and chill.

We have the option of cooking the rice or using straight from frozen.

We don't have a refrigerated packing area.

I'm really not sure which is best from a microbiological point of view, use frozen rice or cook here and add it while still hot.  Any advice?

Thanks

Dear tech,

Since designed to be ready-to-reheat, I presume you meant frozen, cooked, rice ?

Rgds / Charles.C

Thanks Charles, yes, of course, the frozen rice would be already cooked and ready to eat.

The concerns are the fact that the frozen rice would warm up a little when placed on top of the warm protein part although it would be quickly chilled afterwards.

There is also the potential, as I understand, for the curry to be eaten cold (yuk!).  So ready to reheat or ready to eat cold.

Oh this is not good.  Either hot fill or cold fill doing both is not a good idea.  The reason is hot filling effectively sanitises the inside of the container.  Cold filling means that you don't have the bacterial growth in pack, goes straight into chill and out.

I would suggest the rice wouldn't just warm up 'a little'.  Try it, it's likely to warm up *a lot.*

You're right in a way that ready to reheat foods have to follow ready to eat specs, not because you might eat them cold but because lots of people won't reheat them well. 

Is this under your own brand or for a retailer?

Hi, thanks for your response.

These will be under our customer's brand, not ours but they are not a retailer.  They are for sale in a major supermarket.

Thanks

Make sure you include Bacillus cereus in your list of target pathogens for this process. It is spore former and toxin producer so given the right conditions your could be creating some problems. Research and validate the process very well.

The attached datasheet should help you

George

In the circumstances I would use the frozen rice as this will help to cool quicker.

Does cooking the rice mean it is hot filled, as GMO has indicated cold filling of the protein element would be better or hot filling both.

Are you blast chilling/blast freezing afterwards? Rapid cooling to < 8 C will be a critical part of your process to prevent the risk of toxin production by Bacillus cereus.

Regards,

Tony

Dear tech,

i do not see any reference to the final presentation. I hv assumed frozen. Otherwise is a different ball-park, as per various previous caveats .

The necessary control strictness of yr overall  line from input to frozen may relate to the finished product micro. spec. A considerable range of micro. values for non zero-tolerant items can still equate to a safe product, for example i hv seen target  APC specs range from 10^3 to 10^5 cfu/gram. Some raw materials / processes will not accommodate all that range IMEX.

I hv no RTE experience with pots (only plastic bags / boxes) but i would personally have hoped that the container would be in satisfactory  micro. condition before filling, ie hot/cold filling not related to safety of finished product.? a question of specifications / numbers.

Offhand, as per GMO, a "unified"  mix of product condition sounds more logical to me.

As already noted, the hot/cold rice factor could be related to the associated  micro.conditions / hygiene of handling / cumulative times involved / freezing capability to reach ca.-18degC (??)

I assume an adequate control of the typical micro. sensitive inputs/removals/neutralizers such as raw material / cooking, rapid filling/transit system / temperature control into a running blast freezer, ideally a continuous set-up.

We don't have a refrigerated packing area.

I guess it might depend on what you mean by "refrigerated", eg the ambient temperature?.

IMEX (not in freezing UK), this is very unusual for a frozen / chilled  RTE/ "IQF" product (??).

Would require to be haccp  T/t justifiable.

The proof of all the above adequacies relates to regulatory / customer / specifications /  "data". :smile:

Rgds / Charles.C

Thank you all for your guidance so far.

To clarify, the items are chilled, not frozen, sold in single portion pots, ready to heat but could be eaten cold.

We are targetting a 10-day shelf life although yet to be trialled.

Items to be blast chilled to 5C.

My 2 main concerns are:

- whether to use frozen cooked rice or cook in-house and pack while hot.  Which is the most advisable from, primarily bacillus point of view but I guess any other micro concern.  We would prefer frozen but not if this creates a potential hazard

- Our cooking/packing area is not refrigerated.  We will pack hot and rapid chill and I don't see this as a problem but any advice would be gratefully received

Thanks again