BRC Audit Problems

Hiya,

Booked BRC about 3 months ago and they are currently chopping and changing dates. It is in less than two weeks, accommodation is currently booked and they are looking to change again. Not only that but they are now spending two extra people, to "witness".

Am I entitled to say no? Has anybody had any positive audits after such a bad start when even booking?

Thanks!!

Hi

You'll find that it is in your CB's terms and conditions that they are allowed to have extra people to "witness".  It isn't always a bad thing.

Classic

Hello,

If you cancel the scheduled audit, you will pay the cancellation to the CB. We experienced that.

regards,

redfox

I had an audit performed once & then after weeks of waiting for the certificate, I was informed that the auditor was not qualified for my scope and that we would need to re-audit my company. 

Thats the issue here - nobody is available to cover the factory due to its nature. I got another email today to confirm that it was going to be only 2 auditors instead of three and the two coming are not any of the original people listed. Seems like a disaster, very unprofessional at their end!

Good afternoon, we had in a way a similiar situation last year. Everything turned out to be OK though.

In spring 2015 we booked a very well-known certification body for an GFSI system audit at the end of the year, we mentioned that we wanted the certifications audit, however because the contract had a pre-audit as an option and although it didn't say whether we needed to cancel it or not they added it to the program without properly explaining it, so one week before the "audit" we got the notice it was a PREAUDIT. All hell broke loose and we had to get another standard in an unannounced audit to cover up the months we weren't certified for the GFSI and we had an official scheduled audit for the beginning of 2016 for the GFSI.

At the end fo 2015 the auditor arrived nonchalantly late (4 hours after production began) and we had the audit for the other standard. We got a great result, however, because the last time (years ago) we had that type of audit we had a small non conformity regarding pest control, and this time the auditor found another non conformance regarding pest control in another storage area, the audit turned up to be Failed because of the way the digital system worked...even though we had A+. There were a lot of emails and calls involved as the system automatically called it a failure so after a  few weeks central said we were right and we got certified...but we were still waiting fo the GFSI standard at the beginning of 2016. 

We got a call one week before the official schedule of the 2016 audit that they needed to change dates because of a health emergency of the auditor involved. After looking at other options, because that auditor was the only one who the certification body that could cover our scope and categories...most audits are scheduled many months beforehand so his schedule was packed and another 2 facilities also had to reschedule. We had the audit two months later and passed with an A...which was supposed to be a B but because we defended some points of non-confomance it turned up an A. The auditor didn't seem upset or anything. They're also probably used to it.

So at the end of the day it turned out to be OK. The category and scope of the audit is what they look at first to choose auditors, and then their schedule. If they're saying they need to add 2 people to watch, they're probably trainees in the auditing system. Most probably they had a shortage of auditors capable of having the BRC audit. Maybe some poeple quit or they just couldn't do it. 

If anything I'd speak directly by a phonecall with the person in charge of assiging the dates and ask if the people having the audit are certified for your category and scope. Hope everything turns out to be OK.

Regards.

I had an audit performed once & then after weeks of waiting for the certificate, I was informed that the auditor was not qualified for my scope and that we would need to re-audit my company. 

That is awful!  Did you report them to BRC?

Hiya,

 

Booked BRC about 3 months ago and they are currently chopping and changing dates. It is in less than two weeks, accommodation is currently booked and they are looking to change again. Not only that but they are now spending two extra people, to "witness".

 

Am I entitled to say no? Has anybody had any positive audits after such a bad start when even booking?

 

Thanks!!

Yes I have had that situation.  A factory I worked at had failed BRC just before I started and then scraped a B grade the day before my first day.  In the B grade they'd had a witness auditor who then become a second auditor with the reason they had "so much to cover".  This was rubbish, it was a tiny factory.

The next year, the same audit body again asked to have a witness audit.  I spoke to the auditor on the phone and explained, I was new, I knew the witness was only there to observe but BRC was new to the site so I felt it would only be fair on them if they had a "normal" audit this year.  He was absolutely fine, came on his own and gave us an A.

So it is worth a challenge but I suppose I did have reason that they'd had a witnessed audit the previous year which had turned into a not witnessed audit.  You are also right to be concerned.  In my experience, witnesses mean more pairs of eyes.  Also either way whether the person witnessing is inexperienced (so learning the job) or experienced (i.e. assessing the auditor), the auditor is then on their "best behaviour".  That said, I generally don't challenge it as you do need to accept you will have witnessed audits from time to time.  I only did it on this occasion because the need was so great.  If I'd actually had real confidence in the factory I'd have not been bothered but if I'm honest I didn't.

I'm waffling now but my point is this; if you want a thorough audit, accept the witnesses and suck up the changes in plan.  If you want it to be easier, challenge the witnesses but at risk of annoying the auditor.  My cautionary tale though is that once the factory who had previously failed got an "A", they stopped being interested in Technical improvements.  Sometimes an easy audit is the absolute worst thing a factory can get.
 

that auditor was the only one who the certification body that could cover our scope and categories

 

nobody is available to cover the factory due to its nature.

 

I'm curious, what types of products are you running where it's hard to find auditors/certifiers with qualifications?

That is awful!  Did you report them to BRC?

It was a pretty reputable certification body that was going through some in house problems at our national office. Once their head office was contacted and notified of the situation, the replacement auditor was flown in pdq. During my regular audits a consultant was always present because even though our facility was quite large & it was a competent HACCP team, the food safety department was  basically myself. During the re-audit I was not able to get my consultant in on time, so it was performed solo. Still managed to pass with an A rating, although it was extra stress. 

The following year there was some sort of problem again, but when I got in contact with the people I met through their head office, I had an extremely competent auditor again and got re certified. I am actually disappointed that the company I am now with deals with SQF, because I don't get to work with those I did with the BRC. Although adapting and explaning differences in laws between the BRC requirements & Canadian regulations always made for lengthy discussions.

Hi all,

Just wanted to add to this from a BRC GS perspective, that it's obviously concerning from our point of view that you've been suffering with these issues with some CBs.  We're more than happy to receive any feedback on performance and this can be sent through to enquiries@brcglobalstandards.com if you would like to contact us directly.

Thanks,

BRC GS