Roasting cooked meat. Is it a CCP?
Hello everybody,
I've been recently employed in a cooked meat factory.
Some of the products (ham) are roasted for 1-2 hours after steam cooking for 8-10 hours.
Now...the roasting process is currently not a CCP and that sounded strange to me.
Also, the products are left cooling down in the roaster or outside in a tray.
I took the core temperature yesterday and it was 30 degrees C.
I know this is a silly question but should not the products once roasted go straight away into the fridge?
And...should that step be a CCP?
I hope you can give me a guide or some references so I can convince my managers.
Thank you
if it it cold cut product then the answer is yes it should be a CCP
Assuming that the steam cooking is a validated kill step, then it is the ccp and the roasting process can be looked upon as a quality conditioning step. If the steam cooking step is only part 1 of the 2 step kill process, then the roasting step should be considered a ccp.
Best practice is to accelerate the cooling via refrigeration after the meat has cooled to 60 deg C.
Cheers
Dear uk food,
Are you responsible for QA ?
I am totally unfamiliar with yr process so "Why are you roasting and how", ie what is the process step / objective ?
Yr 30degC measurement may/may not be relevant. It is the overall cooling stage (T vs t) which counts. For an approximate retail example the microbiological 2hour/4hr rule. Following stage is unknown.
I believe the haccp requirements, eg CCPs, for most meat processors in UK are almost legislatorily defined. Maybe you should check this if related to yr job (?).
Rgds / Charles.C
We roast only few products that we spread with generally with honey to give the ham (bone off) a particular flavour and aspect.
The steam cooking is of course a critical control point so the reason why we do the roasting is not to complete the killing process.
My query was because just arrived in the factory, I didn't notice any control for that step.
Thank you everybody for your answers.
Regards
Dear UK food,
In my opinion and experience roasting must be CCP, and other points of the process being monitored and also may be CCP or just CP. Otherwise you have no control of the process that you must have. In every industry where something is roasting, roasting is CCP. In baking industry for e.g., you can have only one CCP, and it is roasting. When it comes to meat production, I think there must be special attention to control and CCP. I hope you understand me.
Regards,
Tijana
Dear Tijana,
thank you for your answer.
I think you are right...now, my next target will be present my explanation to my managers :rock:
Regards
Where temperature controls are used i.e. roasting, then this would normally be a CCP, however, you should refer to Regulation (EC) 852/2004 on the hygiene of foodstuffs and in particular to General Provisions article (1) (f) and the use of scientifically validated risk assessment.
A CCP is a point, step, or procedure at which control can be applied and a food safety hazard can be prevented, eliminated, or reduced to acceptable levels. The process of steaming is sufficient to ensure the food is safe ,provided the target temperature set to achieve objectives is met, therefore, one would determine that this is a CCP. However, the procedure of roasting, in my opinion, would be the CCP. I would refer to the Codex decision tree which indicates a logical reasoning approach and guidance when determining CCPs
As for the chilling, Codex states the temperature in the centre of food products should be reduced from 60°C to 10°C in less than two hours and the product stored below 4°C. Effective, safe cooling depends on a number of factors including organisms that need to be destroyed or controlled, the density of a particular food, volume of food, type of container and ingredients used. chilling is absolutely necessary as Spores that survive cooking may be activated and start growing if cooling is too slow.
One of the most important controls to prevent hazards associated with cooling is to cool cooked foods from 54°C to 7°C within 15 hours (<1 log multiplication of Clostridium perfringens). Research by F Steele et al confirms these findings and found that cooked, ready-to-eat turkey deli roasts required a cooling time of no greater than 8.9 hours to prevent the potential outgrowth and subsequent food-borne illness caused by Clostridium perfringens.
Dear Bob,
thank you for your excellent answer.
Regards
Good luck, Ukfood! I think the managemant will understand you! :happydance:
Dear All,
Unfortunately the OP has provided zero input regarding the detailed process, finished product, etc, etc.
I suggest, but purely speculatively, that the OP consult the legislatory requirements for UK meat processing.
http://www.food.gov....uidehygienemeat
If his product is relevant, AFAIK, the above takes precedence but meat/UK not my area of expertise so again speculative.
For, I think, retail oriented food products, the EC regulations 2073/2005 are AFAIK in force which are presumably appropriately adopted within above link.
Rgds / Charles.C
Hello everybody,
I've been recently employed in a cooked meat factory.
Some of the products (ham) are roasted for 1-2 hours after steam cooking for 8-10 hours.
Now...the roasting process is currently not a CCP and that sounded strange to me.
Also, the products are left cooling down in the roaster or outside in a tray.
I took the core temperature yesterday and it was 30 degrees C.
I know this is a silly question but should not the products once roasted go straight away into the fridge?
And...should that step be a CCP?
I hope you can give me a guide or some references so I can convince my managers.
Thank you
Your roasting step may or not be a CCP depending on the hazards introduced by the handling between and any coating applied. It is difficult to advise without knowing the full temperature profile and steps of your process as there are two stages of cooking and you do not indicate how long is between steaming and roasting as there is opportunity for growth of spores there.
The roasting appears to offer an opportunity for spore growth internally so this must be considered in conjunction with cooling. The reference to research 'one of the most important controls to prevent hazards associated with cooling is to cool cooked foods from 54°C to 7°C within 15 hours (<1 log multiplication of Clostridium perfringens)' therefore is not applicable and I don't know anyone who would believe 15 hours cooling to be acceptable.
Typical requirements are to chill to 41ºF or colder within four hours
There are different recommendations for cooling of cured products
It may be that you need to study the temperature profile through all stages of your production.
Regards,
Tony
One thing to look at which others have alluded to is how low the temperature drops between steam cooking and roasting. Depending on your set up there may be no drop at all (e.g. changing from one phase of an oven programme to another), you may decide there is a hazard which needs control either by CCP or prerequisite at this stage.
But normally in a cook / cool process whatever gives the lethal kill step is a CCP and the cooling step is normally a CCP as well with appropriate time / temperature controls.
In this situation rather than take the decision on your own, I would pull together the HACCP team and review evidence (e.g. legislative, guidance, temperature probe records, temperature logging) and come to a decision rather than make the decision yourself. HACCP is a team activity.
I meant to say, if the roasting stage is purely for organoleptic purposes and the steam cooking is for the kill and there is no significant temperature drop then IMO the roasting is not a CCP but there are a lot of assumptions in that.
Thank you people for the answers.
I'm sorry that I didn't provide enough information.
The steam cooking is carried out at 75 degrees C for about 10-12 hours. Then, the products are brought into the blast chiller and their temperature at the end is 4-5 degrees C.
Finally they are stored at 1-5 degrees C.
When the roasting step is required, the products are taken from the fridge storage so the products are refrigerated.
The roaster works at 125 degrees C for 1 hour.
So far there is not temperature control during the roasting process.
The reason why I raised this topic is because I noticed that the products were left chilling out once roasted in the oven or at room temperature for 1-2 hours and when I asked my managers about my doubts, they said they never had problem.
I think the products should go straight away into the fridge at <5 degrees C.
Also, I'm not sure whether or not the roasting step should be a CCP.
I thank you again all for your answers.
Regards
The steam cooking is carried out at 75 degrees C for about 10-12 hours. Then, the products are brought into the blast chiller and their temperature at the end is 4-5 degrees C.Finally they are stored at 1-5 degrees C.
When the roasting step is required, the products are taken from the fridge storage so the products are refrigerated.
The roaster works at 125 degrees C for 1 hour.
So far there is not temperature control during the roasting process.
The reason why I raised this topic is because I noticed that the products were left chilling out once roasted in the oven or at room temperature for 1-2 hours and when I asked my managers about my doubts, they said they never had problem.
I think the products should go straight away into the fridge at <5 degrees C.
Also, I'm not sure whether or not the roasting step should be a CCP.
I thank you again all for your answers.
As I said before it would seem to me that you need to look at the internal temperature profile throughout the process. A datalogger can do that for you.
It is good that you are blast chilling after steaming. It may be that the roasted product should be blast chilled as well (although the fridge may cool quickly enough) and if there is a CCP it is likely to be cooling after roasting.
Regards,
Tony
Clostridia species would be my concern. It might be the first cook step kills off Listeria and Salmonellae and the second might do it in for Clostridia (or nitrates might from the cure). I don't think it's a definite yes / no answer but that's why HACCP is conducted as a team.
As for cooling; IMO both cooling stages should be considered as CCPs due to the fact that you are only doing a log reduction, you are not sterilising the products and as they are open, they are subject to cross contamination risks later. Not saying they have to be, just it has to be considered.