9 replies to this topic

[a_andhika]

Dear Forum,

I would like to get some opinions from you, about how to determine the findings in Internal Audit. We found difficulties in synchronizing our Internal's Auditor perception. Even if we have the guidelines, but some members think its too complicated and therefore the determination is sometimes didn't reach it's goal.

Do you mind to share any exps. or references that might help me to solve the case? Thank you very much.


Regards,


Arya

[AS NUR]

Dear Forum,

I would like to get some opinions from you, about how to determine the findings in Internal Audit. We found difficulties in synchronizing our Internal's Auditor perception. Even if we have the guidelines, but some members think its too complicated and therefore the determination is sometimes didn't reach it's goal.

Do you mind to share any exps. or references that might help me to solve the case? Thank you very much.


Regards,


Arya

Dear Arya...


IMO....

First we have to give them same opinion about audit... As I know Audit is to check how to Adequate and Comply your system with standard...so every finding based on that statement.
Adequacy determine the extend to which the documented system (Procedures, Plans etc) adequately meets the requirements of the standard.
Compliance an in depth review of Prcedures/plants and their content (records), verifying that are implemented and observed within organization.
A compliance audit can not be satisfactorily performed unless an adequacy has been performed.

second...we have to give them same definition of any deficiencies.. here the def. that I use for categories of finding :
1. Nonconformance/noncompliance/Major finding.. That represent a nonfulfillment of specified requirement.
2. Areas requiring attention/Minor finding.. That Represent a non fulfillment of spesified requirement, recognised as being of lower risk to the organization. They may be a "once off" situation or a "minor" deviation from the documented management system or refference criteria.
3. Opportunities for improvement/Observation... THat typically suggestions regarding the improvement of the Management system.


Hope can help you


Rgds

AS Nur

[moo73steve]

Thanks AS Nur, I feel you have summed it up very well.

I think I may borrow some of your thoughts and add them into our Internal Audit Program Document.

Thanks

Steve

[AS NUR]

Thanks AS Nur, I feel you have summed it up very well.

I think I may borrow some of your thoughts and add them into our Internal Audit Program Document.

Thanks

Steve

you welcome steve.. be my pleasure to share my little knowledge.. and I think i can get more then i give from you and the forum......

Edited by AS NUR, 10 December 2008 - 12:29 AM.

[a_andhika]

Dear AS Nur,

Thank you very much for the feedback. Its a very good kind. Sometimes it is hard for us to have the same perception as you did. Maybe just because we dont get used to it. We are using some kind of matrix which evaluate the adequacy and compliance of our system. I guess I can offer some improvement to the matrix based on your information.

BTW, do you use a "critical" or "serious" findings? Do you have any explanation regarding that kind of findings?


Regards,


Arya

[althene]

hello everyone!

i recently did internal audit here at our plant, to synchronize your internal auditor's opinion on whether something is a non-conformance or an observation, i would suggest training first in relation to ISO22000 for all of them.

Include at the training how to properly draft audit reports and how to present their findings based on (F-L-O-R or Findings-Location-Objective Evidence-Reason or Clause)

Also continuously conduct general reviews after all auditors have finished auditing. Show everyone the findings and continuously evaluate if everyone agrees that it is a finding or observation. This way, you would be able to calibrate how your auditors do the audit as well.

Lastly, ensure that the lead auditor has attended a seminar on Lead Auditing. This would equip him or her with the skills needed to answer the queries of other internal auditors and at the same time evaluate their findings. He/She would then have the final say and would judge whether it is an observation or not.

Hope this helps.

[AS NUR]

Dear AS Nur,

BTW, do you use a "critical" or "serious" findings? Do you have any explanation regarding that kind of findings?


Regards,


Arya

Dear Arya...

Its Good sound that i can help you... I used "critical" And "serious" finding in my previous company.. The definition as same as with "major" findings, so to make simple now I use only "major", "minor and "observation" findings...

IMEX... To get clear audit finding we have to define the Deficiency statement from the auditor...The statement have to consist:
1. Objective evidence (what did not satisfy the reference criteria)
2. The Reference (reference criteria that states what should have been)
3. The explanation (What is it deficiency ?usually, This is a re-statement of the requirement from the criteria)

rgds

AS Nur

[rita]

Yes in my company too we use Major, Minor and observations (opportunity for improvements)

[a_andhika]

Dear AS Nur and althene,

Sure it helps me a lot, thank you very much. Hmmm, my consultant has another definition for a good audit. It was P - L - O - R. The "P" one is for the Proof of evidence. The rest of them is the same:).


Regards,


Arya

[AS NUR]

How that my comment can help you to give your better audit result...