10 replies to this topic

[zillaz]

It is clear to me that verification means proving that you are doing what you say that you are doing. while, validation means proving that what you are doing is working and effective. but how do you record it? (an example of a filled table will be highly appreciated)

[Charles.C]

Dear zillaz,

Welcome to the forum !

I respectfully suggest that you are more likely to get a useful answer if you post a particular activity which you are interested in the validation / verification of ?

As you probably know there are many existing general forum threads on this topic, including iso 22000.

Rgds / Charles.C

[zillaz]

we are chandlers so in short we buy from the market and sell to our customers, anyhow we repack some items like spice for example (the only hazard in my possession). I just need to know which records needs to be verified and validated (we currently posses ISO:9002), I'm done with most of the records example like Products Description and Intended Use, Hazard Analysis, Cleaning Schedule, Temp. Record(Cool Rooms, Freezer, Receival, Dispatch) any many more. but in vain for Validation & Verification, I need a thorough HELP
Thanks for your reply indeed.

Dear zillaz,

Welcome to the forum !

I respectfully suggest that you are more likely to get a useful answer if you post a particular activity which you are interested in the validation / verification of ?

As you probably know there are many existing general forum threads on this topic, including iso 22000.

Rgds / Charles.C

[tsmith7858]

we are chandlers so in short we buy from the market and sell to our customers, anyhow we repack some items like spice for example (the only hazard in my possession). I just need to know which records needs to be verified and validated (we currently posses ISO:9002), I'm done with most of the records example like Products Description and Intended Use, Hazard Analysis, Cleaning Schedule, Temp. Record(Cool Rooms, Freezer, Receival, Dispatch) any many more. but in vain for Validation & Verification, I need a thorough HELP
Thanks for your reply indeed.

Verification can be as simple as signature or initials on the documentation used for monitoring. It should be someone other than the person doing the monitoring (typically a supervisor or QA person). It is meant to show that someone is checking each monitoring process to ensure it is completed and any issues were addressed. It is typically only done for CCP but you could choose to do it for OPRP.

Validation will depend on your process and is as you describe proof of effectiveness. It is how you show that the critical control that you put in place can be met. It could be a validation study on an oven confirming temperature and kill steps or a capability study on a process. It is generally conducted on a regular schedule to ensure it continues to meet needs (monthly, quarterly, annually, etc. depending on risk).

[GMO]

I agree with the PP but I would expand verification activities to include independent analyses that your controls are effective, e.g. micro results, complaints, auditing etc.

Sorry, stinky nappy to attend to... Actually make that very stinky!

[GMO]

That was gross.

[Charles.C]

Dear Zillaz,

As you can see, the validation is rather "item" oriented.

Did you in fact hv any CCPs ?

Rgds / Charles.C

PS i expect you saw it already but this recent post in another thread might interest you also -
http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__44822

[zillaz]

yes 2 CCP does packaging, purchasing (fruits and vegetables) count

Dear Zillaz,

As you can see, the validation is rather "item" oriented.

Did you in fact hv any CCPs ?

Rgds / Charles.C

PS i expect you saw it already but this recent post in another thread might interest you also -
http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__44822

[MQA]

Methods for Validation of Critical Limits
ð Validation = Current (proof what you are doing is effective)

· Temperature checks of product, processes or equipment

· Microbiological tests

· Visual checks of personnel, processes, and finished product




Methods for Verification of Legal, Food Safety & Quality Controls
ð Verification = Past (proof you are doing what you say you are doing)

· Review of reports, analysis, records, and audits

[MQA]

All forms and reports implemented for validation have the following requirements:

· Method of obtaining the necessary information

· Responsibility of form or report

· Critical limits for safety, quality and legality

· Date each record is validated (approved)

[Charles.C]

Dear Jakmqa,

ð Validation = Current (proof what you are doing is effective)

Sorry, i don't agree (ideally anyway).

IMO, "current" should be "preliminary". (Unless you specify an "Operational" Validation perhaps ? )

@Zillaz, thks for the CCP info. (purchasing, packaging).

One possible (perhaps the most basic) answer to yr original question might be a 3-column table. column 1 would be the specific CCP/hazard (cross referenced to yr haccp plan CCP details), 2nd could be a reference to a published work demonstrating the validity of yr own chosen preventive measure and 3rd column another cross-reference to data which you hv (trial) obtained to support column 2 (if required)
If you wish for further specific input I suggest you provide a little more info., eg the specific hazards / preventive measure / critical limits which you wish to Va/Ve.


Rgds / Charles.C