9 replies to this topic

[matt_grains]

Good morning!  We are a US based company and we import single ingredient agricultural food products into the US such as rice, sugar, beans, oats, etc.  We import, store, distribute, reprocess and pack the product - all this is outsourced to third parties in the US.  

 

My gut feeling is that BRC Traders & Brokers would be the best standard for us to certify, however the commercial team here don't like the sound of "Traders & Brokers" - they feel it gives the impression of a middleman and doesn't fully represent what we actually do.

 

We have been looking at IFS Wholesale, but I am worried this is more for a supermarket type business.

 

Would really appreciate any ideas anyone can provide to help us choose the best GFSI standard that is a close as possible to a food manufacturer type operation, obviously keeping in mind all we do is outsourced - we don't have our own facility.

 

Thank you!

[Rick Reyes]

Good morning matt-grains, we are a IQF Appetizer producer that is FSSC22000 certified, we co-manufacture for some large corporations which are BRCGS and  SQF certified so we are audited to those standards for their audits. Personally I prefer FSSC22000 for the the clarity in the standard. I was viewing one of the IFSQN webinars and Vladimir Surcinski the presenter stated in the Q&A portion that he thought that FSSC22000 would eventually become the dominant standard world wide because it is the standard that is closest to the ISO standards with less colorful language that leads to confusion in the standard requirements. I don't know if you have ever viewed any of the webinars on this site but Vladimir is definitely one of my favorite presenters because he is so great at the Q&A after and when he doesn't know the answer he say he doesn't  know but gives great references to where the answers may be. It wasn't until Vladimir  mentioned that FSSC22000 followed the ISO standard closely that I realized why I found the standard easier to understand and comply with. i hope this helps.

[Charles.C]

Good morning matt-grains, we are a IQF Appetizer producer that is FSSC22000 certified, we co-manufacture for some large corporations which are BRCGS and  SQF certified so we are audited to those standards for their audits. Personally I prefer FSSC22000 for the the clarity in the standard. I was viewing one of the IFSQN webinars and Vladimir Surcinski the presenter stated in the Q&A portion that he thought that FSSC22000 would eventually become the dominant standard world wide because it is the standard that is closest to the ISO standards with less colorful language that leads to confusion in the standard requirements. I don't know if you have ever viewed any of the webinars on this site but Vladimir is definitely one of my favorite presenters because he is so great at the Q&A after and when he doesn't know the answer he say he doesn't  know but gives great references to where the answers may be. It wasn't until Vladimir  mentioned that FSSC22000 followed the ISO standard closely that I realized why I found the standard easier to understand and comply with. i hope this helps.

Hi Rick,

 

Sorry to disagree but I consider that iso's invention of OPRP has been one of the most disastrous and time wasting innovations in the HACCP World since 2005. And the discussion over what it is still continues.

 

With respect to fssc22000, if you enjoyed getting certified to iso9001, you will maybe like it. Otherwise IMO look elsewhere (although as I understand, it does offer time advantages regarding follow-up audits).

 

TBH I believe all the GFSI recognised Standards as commonly discussed in this Forum contain sections which require MENSA to understand.

 

@ matt - the most frequent response to yr query is that the choice of Standard often depends on what your customers prefer.

[pHruit]

Good morning!  We are a US based company and we import single ingredient agricultural food products into the US such as rice, sugar, beans, oats, etc.  We import, store, distribute, reprocess and pack the product - all this is outsourced to third parties in the US.  

 

My gut feeling is that BRC Traders & Brokers would be the best standard for us to certify, however the commercial team here don't like the sound of "Traders & Brokers" - they feel it gives the impression of a middleman and doesn't fully represent what we actually do.

 

We have been looking at IFS Wholesale, but I am worried this is more for a supermarket type business.

 

Would really appreciate any ideas anyone can provide to help us choose the best GFSI standard that is a close as possible to a food manufacturer type operation, obviously keeping in mind all we do is outsourced - we don't have our own facility.

 

Thank you!

BRC Agents & Brokers sounds like it may well do what you need. The IFS equivalent is the IFS Broker standard.

FWIW, the BRC one is relatively closely aligned with their manufacturing standard, so translates fairly well IMEX. (Aside from a few oddities like the potentially slightly confusing HACCP-esque replacement for section 2...).

 

I suspect you'll find that those who don't know the scheme well will just hear the "BRC" or "IFS" bit, and those who do know will look at the scope of your actual certification, which is what really matters for defining the activities your business undertakes. I don't know what your sales team are like, but having worked at places with both BRC Food and BRC Agents & Brokers certifications, I've literally never heard any sales person refer to them by their full title, but instead they just say "we've got BRC" or similar.

[MDaleDDF]

Another vote for BRC.   I'm FSSC 22k, and I think there's stuff associated with it you won't need or want to do.

[Charles.C]

Another vote for BRC.   I'm FSSC 22k, and I think there's stuff associated with it you won't need or want to do.

But is BRC viable in USA (or Argentina) ?

 

And a similar comment for IFS (developed for France/Germany IIRC ).

 

(Just asking, no idea one way or the other).

[kingstudruler1]

But is BRC viable in USA (or Argentina) ?

 

And a similar comment for IFS (developed for France/Germany IIRC ).

 

(Just asking, no idea one way or the other).

 

 

BRC has a decent presence in the USA I have a couple of BRC certified facilities.   FSSC is fairly common as well.    IFS seems less prevalent (to me).   SQF seems to be king. 

[mgourley]

Probably getting off topic here a bit, but just looking at the certifications of our suppliers, the vast majority of US based companies are SQF, followed by BRC, The vast majority of "foreign" suppliers are FSSC22000 followed by BRC.

 

We are certificated to the BRCGS, and it's what I am most familiar with. While I get your commercial teams aversion to the term "Traders and Brokers", from your description, that seems to be what you are. 

I'm not overly familiar with that particular standard, but it would get my vote. BRCGS is not overly proscriptive and allows quite a bit of leeway in complying with the actual standard. That being said, it may get more so, depending on what GFSI requires.

 

Marshall

[matt_grains]

Thanks very much for the replies.  US customers mostly require a GFSI Scheme - GFSI not being a standard itself exactly, but more of a benchmark under which several food certifications are included - BRC is one of them, so if SQF and FSSC, plus others.

 

I think it comes down to either BRC or IFS, as mentioned by pHruit.

 

Rick Reyes - interesting comment you made there about being a copacker - off-topic but... we have an exclusive agreement with a co-packer who only pack for us and we tried getting SQF certification for that copacker/facility, but in our own name (not the copackers name) - are you saying this is actually possible? Your customers are doing that with your facility?  I'd love to know more.

 

Thanks again all!  Good feedback here!

[Charles.C]

Thanks very much for the replies.  US customers mostly require a GFSI Scheme - GFSI not being a standard itself exactly, but more of a benchmark under which several food certifications are included - BRC is one of them, so if SQF and FSSC, plus others.

 

I think it comes down to either BRC or IFS, as mentioned by pHruit.

 

Rick Reyes - interesting comment you made there about being a copacker - off-topic but... we have an exclusive agreement with a co-packer who only pack for us and we tried getting SQF certification for that copacker/facility, but in our own name (not the copackers name) - are you saying this is actually possible? Your customers are doing that with your facility?  I'd love to know more.

 

Thanks again all!  Good feedback here!

Hi matt,

 

Perhaps US is more flexible  but IMEX (not US) customers simply stipulate that their supplier  be certified to  a specific GFSI - recognized Standard, namely BRC. Period.

 

Regardless, Good Luck !