33 replies to this topic

[AJL]

Ok so it doesn't say explicitly in BRC that we need to monitor the temperature of our fridge, but in the guide is does sort- of say it. 

We got an observation on it. 

So what is an easy way (without too much hassle) to close it out? 

 

I was thinking just a logger that we read daily, but can I also get away with just taking the data out of a 'logger' weekly. 

Or is that too long time to respond if the temp is out?

Thanks! What doese everyone else do?

[kingstudruler1]

For 4.8.8?   I've honestly never been asked to do this for fridges that were storing employee lunches and drinks.   Is that what we are talking about?  or are you preparing meals for employees on site.  

 

Id put a thermometer in the fridge with a sign that says "notify supervisor if temp is greater than X".    

 

Create a risk assessment stating that your new procedure is "will suitably prevent the contamination of products" 

[AJL]

Hmmm yeah honestly we did it in Australia for SQF.
Fridge is for staff meals and the site provides some food.
Thanks a good way to cover it ! What would you say would be maximum temp?

[ShaunD]

We simply get one of our QC's to stick a reference probe in them once per day, and record the temperature.

Target is 5°C + or - 2°C, unacceptable >7°C or <-2°C.

A logger would work but you should read and record the temperature daily, leaving it for a week (without checking and recording it daily) would not suffice as corrective action could be delayed by days.

 

[AJL]

Yeah thats what I was trying to avoid actually, a daily reading 🙄🙄
Because I am the technical, QA, QC etc and I was trying to avoid adding 'one more task' to the list- I mean who does it when I'm not there? What about the Weekend?

[jfrey123]

I had a customer audit once where the guy argued with me that SQF requires me to monitor the employee fridge temp, said he was going to write it up in his audit that we weren't SQF compliant when I argued.  I stuck to my guns, three separate SQF auditors prior hadn't required it of us and that code makes no explicit mention that the refrigerator must be monitored.  We responded to his "finding" that we were compliant with SQF code on the matter and would take his observation under advisement.  In the end, I did post a sign that stated employees should tell a supervisor if the refrigerator stops working and updated our breakroom policy to reflect employees should report a non-functional refrigerator. 

 

Refrigerator was only for employees and the company did not provide any foodstuffs inside it, and it could be that second part where an auditor is upping their attention to the matter.  If the company is providing some of the food in there, especially say overrun from production products for employees to have, then arguably it's a finished goods refrigerator now too and subject to monitoring.

 

Temp wise, should you decide it needs to be monitored:  if keeping company provided stuffs, it should probably be checked daily and kept under the max temp for your finished goods.  If only keeping employees bringing their lunch foods, I'd honestly look to see what the maximum temperature setting of the refrigerator is and say someone should notify a supervisor if the temp exceeds that maximum.  I'd happily argue employees themselves are checking it each time they grab their own food, and the reporting of it non-functional is captured by them at that time.

[AnnaAnka]

I have worked at two different companies which are BRC certified, and both got a NC that we didn't monitor the temperature in the fridge that the company provided to the staff to store their food. I don't exactly remember the clause by word, but it says something like "the company is responsible for providing safe and hygienic storage of food", and the auditors have interpreted this as the companies are responible for ensuring that the fridges are working properly. 

Edited by AnnaAnka, 29 December 2023 - 09:36 AM.

[AJL]

Thanks AnnaAnka, how did you close out the NC?

[AnnaAnka]

Thanks AnnaAnka, how did you close out the NC?

Unfortunately, we only saw one solution (the one we didn't wan't) - to place a thermometer in the fridges and create a registration form where the temperature were registered every working day. The limit were set based on guidance from the food authorities. 

 

If anyone has a better solution I'm grateful for tips!

[AJL]

Yeah, also what we would like to avoid. We will probably end up getting an NC because we missed a day 🙄🙄🙄
I'm thinking I will add a logger in the fridge, where you can pull data out, with a weekly manual check based on risk assessment.
Not sure if that is easier or faster but gah!!

[Tony-C]

Hi AJL,

 

Happy New Year!

 

BRCGS Guidance does state: The risks identified should be effectively controlled – in particular, those associated with staff hygiene, cleaning, cross-contamination between raw and cooked foods, and storage conditions.

 

You could go with a thermometer and allocate someone to log the temperature manually, having a clipboard with check sheet on the side of the fridge: 

Digitron FM25 Wireless Digital Thermometer for use in Refrigerators and Freezers

 

This is would seem what you are looking for, connecting via Wi-Fi to a PC or tablet, but not as cheap:

Traceable Calibrated Wi-Fi Data Logging Refrigerator/Freezer Thermometer Compatible with TraceableLIVE® Cloud Service; 1 Bottle and 1 Bullet Probe

 

The manual solution may be a better one if you want to check for other things such as hygiene and the types of food being stored.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

[nwilson]

I have used data loggers (as mentioned on this thread) and used a version that would notify key staff via email and text when a temperature was out of range and for the length of the duration as well.  We found a set frequency of verifying temperatures against a calibrated thermometer to be compliant.  This system was used in breakrooms, R&D, QC Lab, and finished product temp. controlled storage.  There are many options out there that are fairly cost effective.  

[Dorothy87]

Hello :) 

 

We are using data loggers. I have reduced checks with risk assessment, and currently we are checking all canteen fridges once a day. 

 

Will be worth it to add some corrective actions for Saturday & Sunday. In our case we trained staff (induction) that food must be removed on Friday. Any leftovers will be removed by hygiene team on Friday.

 

[INL]

Hi there, 

 

So after reading all the comments here, I understand that there is no chance to avoid temperature registration for the fridges where workers keep their own brought lunch boxes and different type of food..., we are a small company and basically 20 people using those fridges, I know already there would be a big discussion if we would say that for example on Fridays they have to empty the fridges... no chance, I can tell that straight away... we have data loggers and in case there would be something wrong with the fridges the responsible person would get a message. 

But regarding Saturday and Sunday - would that automatic temperature logger cover these days?

 

 

Hello :) 

 

We are using data loggers. I have reduced checks with risk assessment, and currently we are checking all canteen fridges once a day. 

 

Will be worth it to add some corrective actions for Saturday & Sunday. In our case we trained staff (induction) that food must be removed on Friday. Any leftovers will be removed by hygiene team on Friday.

 

[TimG]

Just so I understand this correctly. This post is concerning break room fridges that store only employee items?

[MDaleDDF]

The day I have to monitor the break room fridge, is the day the fridge goes bye bye....

What in the world does this have to do with producing safe food?   These systems are getting more and more silly as time goes on...

Edited by MDaleDDF, 23 January 2025 - 01:23 PM.

[INL]

We have had many discussions around this and still have.. We wont it to do it properly, but without being it overkill... 

[INL]

Yes, that is correct... it is fridges in break rooms ... 

 

Just so I understand this correctly. This post is concerning break room fridges that store only employee items?

[Setanta]

You know, in my head, I get that foodborne illnesses affect employees, too, but monitoring canteen/break room fridges seems a bit of a reach.

 

I would be more concerned with how people maintain their kitchens IF I were eating their food, but I avoid potlucks now.

Edited by Setanta, 23 January 2025 - 02:05 PM.

[TimG]

I got into compliance to fight stupid rules. As I grow older and more jaded, I find it more and more futile to fight the majority of them (the stupid ones I mean).

This one, this one right here might rekindle my passion.

[INL]

We have had many discussions around this and still have.. We wont it to do it properly, but without being it overkill...

I meant “we want it to do properly”

[chrisrushworth]

Ok so it doesn't say explicitly in BRC that we need to monitor the temperature of our fridge, but in the guide is does sort- of say it. 

We got an observation on it. 

So what is an easy way (without too much hassle) to close it out? 

 

I was thinking just a logger that we read daily, but can I also get away with just taking the data out of a 'logger' weekly. 

Or is that too long time to respond if the temp is out?

Thanks! What doese everyone else do?

 

4.8.7 - All food brought into manufacturing premises by staff shall be appropriately stored in a clean & hygienic state.

 

Thus stating food must be stored safely in a 0-8° controlled environment... so you have to prove that your fridges are working correctly to ensure that staff food remains safe.

 

 

We have a visual fridge thermometer set in each of the fridges.

We then do a weekly check using our QA reference probe when we do our other fridge/chiller/freezers/temp probe checks.

 

This is a requirement that BRCGS auditors look for, they also check for cleanliness in the microwaves! Every auditor in my 7 BRCGS audits have checked both staff fridges & material fridges.

[siskos]

An analog thermometer and an addition check tick to the daily check list from the QC is OK I think. Also put a note on the fridge about the proper temperature range.

[GMO]

I have to admit I don't get the objections to this being raised.  It's the same in my opinion as serving unsafe food from a staff canteen and you can bet your BRCGS auditor is looking there if you have one.  The rationale will be that you do not want to make your staff ill, as doing so could, in turn, spread pathogenic bacteria or viruses to the foods you are making on site.

 

I've only gone down the manual logging route for these fridges or, where the site has one, having it linked to automated upload to an external system with alarms to people's mobiles if it's out of spec.  The manual logging has either sat with QA or sat with the canteen staff depending on the site and whether there was a canteen.  

 

Weekends, if there is staff present on site, then make them accountable to check the temperature.  (Perhaps the same "role" could be accountable all the time?)  If there are no staff on site, then at some point that fridge will need clearing out.  I suggest it's done on a Friday!

[TimG]

I have a feeling it's somewhat a cultural thing, GMO. Here stateside, the sentiment is 'your (as the GFSI scheme auditor) job is to keep me on track to make safe food that enters commerce. I feel the auditor/scheme has no place trying to control anything other than that. The fridge in my break room has no impact on me producing safe food. If it breaks down, we replace it. We aren't allocating resources to monitor it.

 

This might be why you hardly ever see BRC GFSI schemes here stateside; 'rules' like that just wouldn't be a good fit culturally.