9 replies to this topic

[astro]

Hello people
Currently I am using ATP swabbing currently but I would like some advise and help on creating a risk assessment to determine frequency. I have my audit next week so 8f if could help that would be massively appreciated

[MDaleDDF]

Need more information to give you advice.   What do you make firstly?

[astro]

Lol that would help.

We do flexible food contact packaging. So print, laminate and slit

[MDaleDDF]

How long have you been swabbing?   Have you got a body of evidence built up?    If you've been swabbing clean for years, that helps.

I don't work in packaging, so someone who does will hopefully chime in, but I'd consider your situation pretty low risk compared to me, and I do 3 swabs once a week and have been told by auditors that's more than I need to do.  

Edited by MDaleDDF, 01 March 2024 - 02:03 PM.

[Scampi]

how often do you swab now and what is the average value you're getting?

[astro]

Currently I have no definitive answer for that as we are doing possibly 2 machines a week using ATP swabs. We used to do one machine every day so once a week. We swab packaging contact rollers but a random of 6 in total when there is far more rollers as you can imagine. We get instant fails so we can reclean and retest. Results have be ok, no issues from customers reporting anything. Been doing this for 5 months now but need to get a fixed schedule and risk assessment in place and reduce it from weekly if I can.

[Scampi]

You're automatic fails say you cannot reduce your frequency yet as that is why you swab in the first place, as verification of sanitation procedures and efficacy 

 

Once you get the sanitation process under control and you go X amount of time with all good results, then you can lower your frequency

[MDaleDDF]

Yeah, if you're getting automatic fails, your SOP's for cleaning need adjustment.   I went through that when I first started my path program 15 years ago, and it took some time, but at this point if my cleaning SOP has been run on a piece of equipment, I guarantee you it will pass.   That needs to be the norm.

Also, your work instruction should have very clear instructions on exactly what you're to do in the event of a failed swab, a swab that fails twice, etc.

[Scotty_SQF]

I do not mean this to sound rude at all just a general set of questions, so please take no offense.  I am trying to help.  Why are you swabbing ATP in the first place?  Are you actually doing a wet clean?  Risk of microbiological issues with food contact packaging should be very low, like almost negligible as there is no scientific evidence of pathogen growth on flexible plastic packaging.  What areas are you swabbing?  Only food contact rollers and such I would hope.  In all honesty you should have been able to risk yourself out of swabbing completely, but now you've started and have failure results so that puts a damper on that.  What swabbing technique are you using?  Is there a chance you are contaminating the swab by accident and getting these results?  Your presses should have dryers that adds a heat source to further reduce any risk and the laminators also operate at very high temperatures, again reducing risk, and another justification.  So you should only really swab maybe your slitters.  Perhaps that will help?

 

I've worked in packaging almost 10 years and I have only done swabbing once to prove out my risk assessment and did a pathogen swab with all results negative.  It validated my risk assessment and helped to validate our cleaning program as well.

 

If you are wet cleaning then I would see that you have now introduced a bit of a risk and could possibly justify swabbing.  I have only been involved with the SQF scheme, so unfamiliar with BRC code on swabbing for packaging.

[beautiophile]

 

I've worked in packaging almost 10 years and I have only done swabbing once to prove out my risk assessment and did a pathogen swab with all results negative.  It validated my risk assessment and helped to validate our cleaning program as well.

 

If you are wet cleaning then I would see that you have now introduced a bit of a risk and could possibly justify swabbing.  I have only been involved with the SQF scheme, so unfamiliar with BRC code on swabbing for packaging.

 

I did this once, I even refered the document issued by BRC to prove that the processes in my company did not need the test. Still the auditor with BRC-food background gave us an NC for not doing microbio swab.