8 replies to this topic

[LucyLeP]

Hello,

I just wondered if anyone else has had this issue.(I have heard it is currently very common)  I was due an unannounced BRC audit, However due to organisational issues within the audit company and then the allocated auditor (from Germany) then leaving the audit company, eventually very late in my audit window an auditor finally turned up. The issue is that they had been flown in from Ecuador , South America to the UK, to audit my very small family fruit farm for a day and a half.  Unfortunately because the audit company had experienced organisational issues they had not left themselves enough time to arrange anything else (despite a years audit window) and this was the only person they had available. I was not given any pre-warning about the added expense due to problems within their company,  just a huge bill. The flight was £3000 as it was last minute and apparently all they could get, they added the time for her travel of 2.5 days and the rest of the normal hotel/taxi/train expenses. This has apparently been split with another grower but I am frustrated that I now have to pick up 1.5 days BRC audit for nearly £7000.  I just wondered how many other people have had the same problem and how it can be prevented with unannounced audits. 

Many thanks 

Lucy 

[SQFconsultant]

Having had extensive experience as both a consultant and an auditor working internationally we do know that assembling a travel package with little time available drives all costs up - however that may be a bit steep.

 

In case you have not done so as of yet, I'd pay the CB for the audit - separate out the travel expenses and hold that for now.

 

Ask for an itemized list of all direct travel (flights, hotel, train, etc) and indirect expenses that can be billed to the client.

 

You'll also want to ensure that you are not paying for things that would normally be paid for by the Auditor or CB anyway, like office supplies - for instance I left for a flight from Miami, Florida to Toronto, Canada and at the airport I got 2 pens, 2 pads of paper, a candy bar and a book to read on the flight - $35.00 - this to me is a personal expense - but you might be surprized how often these kind of expenses are passed onto the client for reimbursement by being built into direct expenses.

 

Some (not all) companies will PAD the expenses to even things out - meaning a flight ticket that comes in at $3000 was really $2500 - but they added money on to make a profit.

 

Frankly, our company for 22 years built all of our expenses into the project fee and we would target the exact expenses - if we went $100 over target we ate it, but if we went $100 under we refunded it - travel and related expenses should never be a profit center for a company or Contract Auditor.

 

If you do have an itemized list of expenses and do not find any issues you are going to be stuck with paying everything, I doubt you will have recourse as you accepted for them to come.

 

I would however consider changing CB's to a company that readily has Auditors much more local and paying for all estimated expenses and cost of audit ahead of time and being advised if an Auditor must come in from a distance.

 

Remember as the client you are in drivers seat - you can always say NO and shift gears.

[jfrey123]

I would think you should have had an approved contract with the CB to provide an audit during the unannounced window for a set price.  If that was the case, I would demand they hold firm to the contract they agreed to, all of these unexpected costs due to their internal organizational issues are not your problem.  Can't blame them for trying to push the extra costs forward, but it's not your company's fault they had problems and (by your description) dropped the ball.

[olenazh]

Is it worth of all those expenses to have GFSI certification for a small local farm? Does the certification really increase the cost of their products? Because, GFSI certification is not a requirement AFAIK.

[G M]

I would think you should have had an approved contract with the CB to provide an audit during the unannounced window for a set price.  If that was the case, I would demand they hold firm to the contract they agreed to, all of these unexpected costs due to their internal organizational issues are not your problem.  Can't blame them for trying to push the extra costs forward, but it's not your company's fault they had problems and (by your description) dropped the ball.

 

I would expect most audit contracts to have a line saying something to the effect of "invoice for the auditor expenses (airfare, car rental, lodging, food, taxi) after completion of the audit".  There was very likely an agreement to cover those kinds of expenses, but as Glenn said, ask for that portion to be itemized if it isn't already to make sure it isn't being padded.

[Ishau]

That sounds like a very expensive audit.

The audit window is now 4 months, not 9 months, so there should be plently of time to arrange this audit before your window had even opened.

The fact that you are in the UK and the original audit was going to be from Germany is already worrying enough. Seems like your CB doesn't have the resources within the UK market.

I suspect you are contractually obliged to pay this money, but I would check your contract to see if travel time is specifically mentioned. Then has others have suggested you can challenge this and ask for an itemised breakdown.

The reality though that your audit is not valid until you have paid for the audit + expenses so you will end up needing to pay it. If it takes longer than 42 days then the CB will probably upload and then suspend certificate as per protocol.

As for your audit next year, I would recommend changing certification body to ensure that you are given a local auditor. If you decide to do this then let me know, if my CB had done your audit it would have been thousands of pounds cheaper for you and your travel expenses would have been invoiced before the start of the audit window - we charge all travel expenses up front so there is no surprise expenses following the audit. If we have a problem with the auditor once it is booked then that is our problem, not yours, so we take the hit.

[MlissaB]

We pushed back to our CB on travel charges once due to the significant increase from the previous year. They did an internal review and determined that the increase was above what they were seeing across the board and issued credits for a couple of our sites. I have also inquired regarding being charged for flying an auditor internationally because they don't have someone available "locally." I was told that we are not charged the full cost. 

 

We are audited to the BRCGS Packaging standard and I've been told repeatedly that there is a significant shortage of auditors for this standard. In my opinion this is the CBs issue, it is their responsibility to ensure they have enough staff to meet the needs of their customers. It's one thing to have to fly someone from somewhere in Europe to the UK, it's another to have to fly them from S America. I've also reviewed the charges across all of our sites and we are consistently charged 1/2 day for travel whether the auditor is driving a couple of hours or flying from the other side of the country. This seems to be a "fairer" way to handle this than to charge for the actual time, especially when you as the customer have no control over where they are getting the auditor from.

[GMO]

It can be easy to suck up whatever a CB throws at you for fear of losing accreditation but this is ridiculous. You are well within your rights to complain and I would. I cannot believe that the outgoing auditor left so suddenly that there was no alternative. Are they really claiming that they could not have moved another planned audit slot to you?

I’d complain AND move CBs before the next audit.

[Swiftee]

Hello,

I just wondered if anyone else has had this issue.(I have heard it is currently very common)  I was due an unannounced BRC audit, However due to organisational issues within the audit company and then the allocated auditor (from Germany) then leaving the audit company, eventually very late in my audit window an auditor finally turned up. The issue is that they had been flown in from Ecuador , South America to the UK, to audit my very small family fruit farm for a day and a half.  Unfortunately because the audit company had experienced organisational issues they had not left themselves enough time to arrange anything else (despite a years audit window) and this was the only person they had available. I was not given any pre-warning about the added expense due to problems within their company,  just a huge bill. The flight was £3000 as it was last minute and apparently all they could get, they added the time for her travel of 2.5 days and the rest of the normal hotel/taxi/train expenses. This has apparently been split with another grower but I am frustrated that I now have to pick up 1.5 days BRC audit for nearly £7000.  I just wondered how many other people have had the same problem and how it can be prevented with unannounced audits. 

Many thanks 

Lucy 

 

Hello Lucy,

I would suggest changing your CB. I also work for a fruit farm which has a large packhouse, we use NSF and have never had a problem with expensive expenses, all our auditors are UK based and assigned by region usually.

 

We had our audit last week, just to put in perspective our audit quote was £3,147 which was 2.25 day audit fee and £795 BRCGS royalty fee.

Travel time was billed at £528 + meals at cost price. + travel expenses at cost (+10% admin fee)