42 replies to this topic

[MDaleDDF]

GOOD LORD!  I admit I skimmed that, and I thought he just found it, NOT that he presented it to you in front of the auditor. 

I take back my hero comment, that's a sabotage!!!!

 

Years ago, prior to SQF, I was a tag along on an audit where an employee casually mentioned to the auditor, that "the metal detector didn't always work", which was BS. The metal detector did work, but the employee liked to make everything dramatic. There was a serious talking to with that person. And that audit was a failure.

Ever have a disgruntled employee or ex employee try to cause issues with audits or work in general?   I had a guy tell an auditor all my paperwork was faked, then quit on the spot, lol.   It's pretty easy to tell my entire system isn't 'faked' luckily.   Then the dude got on google and left a review for our company saying how terrible it was, how unsafe it was, how all the managers were cocaine addicts, etc etc etc.    

People are crazy.

[ChristinaK]

Ever have a disgruntled employee or ex employee try to cause issues with audits or work in general?   I had a guy tell an auditor all my paperwork was faked, then quit on the spot, lol.   It's pretty easy to tell my entire system isn't 'faked' luckily.   Then the dude got on google and left a review for our company saying how terrible it was, how unsafe it was, how all the managers were cocaine addicts, etc etc etc.    

People are crazy.

 

I left a company half a year before their audit window and prepared ~everything~ in advance (internal audit schedule, team assignments, document reviews, etc.) and left them on my desk. I had backed up the entire document control and quality drives onto an external hard drive that was kept locked in the desk (the folders were also located on a shared network drive which was backed up daily). My ex-manager claimed that I'd done none of that to try to cover up how badly he f-ed up during their SQF audit, which was almost 6 months after I'd left. Another manager called me to talk about it...apparently it was the worst they're ever done on an audit, and the ex-manager left shortly thereafter. 

[MDaleDDF]

I left a company half a year before their audit window and prepared ~everything~ in advance (internal audit schedule, team assignments, document reviews, etc.) and left them on my desk. I had backed up the entire document control and quality drives onto an external hard drive that was kept locked in the desk (the folders were also located on a shared network drive which was backed up daily). My ex-manager claimed that I'd done none of that to try to cover up how badly he f-ed up during their SQF audit, which was almost 6 months after I'd left. Another manager called me to talk about it...apparently it was the worst they're ever done on an audit, and the ex-manager left shortly thereafter. 

Lol, that's crazy.

My boss asked me after our interaction with the employee detailed above, if we indeed had any cocaine addicts in management.   I told him:  "I can quit anytime I want!"  He laughed.  He gets my humor...

 

Lol.

[Scotty_SQF]

I left a company half a year before their audit window and prepared ~everything~ in advance (internal audit schedule, team assignments, document reviews, etc.) and left them on my desk. I had backed up the entire document control and quality drives onto an external hard drive that was kept locked in the desk (the folders were also located on a shared network drive which was backed up daily). My ex-manager claimed that I'd done none of that to try to cover up how badly he f-ed up during their SQF audit, which was almost 6 months after I'd left. Another manager called me to talk about it...apparently it was the worst they're ever done on an audit, and the ex-manager left shortly thereafter. 

I had a similar situation happen to me. My position was cut as they felt it wasn't needed two months before an unannounced audit period.  I had everything basically ready at my desk and on the drives.  They had HR call my at least once a week for the next two months asking where stuff was.  Finally I had enough and told the super nice HR guy, 'look I had everything ready and left everything there as it is your property, if they cannot find it, it is now on them.  They decided my position was no longer needed.  This is starting to be borderline harassment now, so I expect to no longer receive calls on this.'  HR guy said 'I completely understand', and I never received a call again.  They had a not so good audit and they fired my old boss not long after...

[tnguyen1300]

Oh my...while our CB for SQF is not NSF, our organic CB is QAI, whose parent company is NSF and it has been a nightmare working with QAI! Maybe it is not a  coincidence or maybe it is...

 

Last year I sent an official complaint to QAI regarding a myriad of issues but I never got a response or acknowledgement...this year is no short of troubles either. I understand there is a shortage of auditors but the lack of communication is ridiculous. 

[swebster]

I didn't want to leave you all hanging! After 3 cancellations the inspector finally got here 3 days before our cert was set to expire and 5 days after the "60 days". He came in and was very professional and polite. He cleared us of the critical, no droppings, no activity what so ever. But he was confused on why he was here and treated it like a normal audit. A little less paperwork but none the less, 2 thorough inspections. He spoke with 5 employees and asked a lot of questions. 

The confusion part to me was that he was noting and discussing non-conformances with us; this inspection was supposed to only be for the critical. He spent ALL day here and gave us the report at the end with 6 minors, like a regular audit. He said he would report to NSF immediately that the critical has been mitigated (it was never an infestation like reported)- of course it was mitigated. The next day I see I have 6 NC to send corrective actions in to NSF before we can get our certificate out of suspension. I started compiling what i needed because we NEED the certificate like yesterday. I also emailed our manager at NSF and told her this was a critical inspection, why are we being given NC's when we should just get our certificate. She reached out to her superior and got an answer that i was correct. I then told her great, when should i expect our certificate? She tells me TWO WEEKS! What, why? 

 

I replied and the next day had the manager reaching out stating in a letter that we are out of suspension and good to go. I asked him can we please get an expedited copy of the certificate? Finally he confirmed that it would be here by Friday! I have never had such an issue with our CB as i have this last audit, it was so unorganized and rules were just overlooked.

 

Thanks for the recommendations, i really need to look into a new CB. 

[swebster]

I haven't worked with QAI, but I don't think it is a coincidence. There is a lack of employees everywhere, I understand that but yes COMMUNICATION is key. If they were honest on telling us where we stood and how to move forward it would have went much smoother. Also we felt like we were being pulled along, for example I would submit the Corrective for the major and they kept asking for more information. Although, what they were asking for was already sent. So, I thought maybe they didn't like how it was written, so i reworded it. Fast forward 3 weeks of back and forth and they are putting that major up to a critical. 

[ChristinaK]

I haven't worked with QAI, but I don't think it is a coincidence. There is a lack of employees everywhere, I understand that but yes COMMUNICATION is key. If they were honest on telling us where we stood and how to move forward it would have went much smoother. Also we felt like we were being pulled along, for example I would submit the Corrective for the major and they kept asking for more information. Although, what they were asking for was already sent. So, I thought maybe they didn't like how it was written, so i reworded it. Fast forward 3 weeks of back and forth and they are putting that major up to a critical. 

 

I'm glad this is finally getting resolved for you and you'll receive your certificate soon.

 

At a previous company, we used AIB, and I don't recall ever having an issue with them. At my current company we're using FSNS, and although our audit hasn't happened yet, all the pre-audit stuff has been going pretty smoothly. We aren't SQF yet though, just GMP for now.

 

Getting our SMETA 4-pillar audit scheduled with Intertek however...they're booked like 6 months out. XnX Although they may have more GFSI auditors than SMETA auditors, so there might not be an issue scheduling for a food safety audit. 

[Scampi]

The whole process is repugnant   all because the retail sector doesn't want to lose $$ on recalls---well surprise surprise, GFSI audits have NOT reduced those #s at all

 

15K a year plus the stress, "interpretation", lack of applicable experience in the auditors, poorly trained auditors, not enough auditors and no one auditing them!  A process determined to fail

 

Canada implemented a change to our regulatory landscape to include everyone who buys/sells outside of their province, I know this won't be a favorable comment, but government regulations are the ONLY solution, particularly on a global scale................tell me one thing GFSI can do to help expand your business outside your own borders???

[G M]

...  Getting our SMETA 4-pillar audit scheduled with Intertek however...they're booked like 6 months out. XnX Although they may have more GFSI auditors than SMETA auditors, so there might not be an issue scheduling for a food safety audit. 

 

The last SMETA-4P I did the customer gave us ~40 days ... I rolled my eyes and said I'd try, but next time they should give us at least 90 days advance, or just make it a recurring annual/bi-annual request so I could schedule it 6 month ahead.

 

I don't think I even had the audit date scheduled within their 40 days.

[G M]

The whole process is repugnant   ... I know this won't be a favorable comment, but government regulations are the ONLY solution, particularly on a global scale................tell me one thing GFSI can do to help expand your business outside your own borders???

 

Better govt inspection might be a better solution, but given the state of the FDA and their once-in-5-years inspection rate, it's hard to believe the biggest player down here is taking that role seriously.

[kingstudruler1]

Better govt inspection might be a better solution, but given the state of the FDA and their once-in-5-years inspection rate, it's hard to believe the biggest player down here is taking that role seriously.

 

Third party audits are a bussiness.   Giving deserved poor scores or not giving artifically good scores is not good for bussiness.   Anytime the auditee pays the auditor there is opportunity for skewed results.   IMO

 

I was asked to evaluate a GFSI certified facility.   No food safety / haccp plan, not one written procedure.   No one on site could / would explain how they "passed".    

[Scotty_SQF]

Third party audits are a bussiness.   Giving deserved poor scores or not giving artifically good scores is not good for bussiness.   Anytime the auditee pays the auditor there is opportunity for skewed results.   IMO

 

I was asked to evaluate a GFSI certified facility.   No food safety / haccp plan, not one written procedure.   No one on site could / would explain how they "passed".    

Agreed and wow...makes me lose even more faith in GFSI....

[Scampi]

Better govt inspection might be a better solution, but given the state of the FDA and their once-in-5-years inspection rate, it's hard to believe the biggest player down here is taking that role seriously.

Couldn't agree more  (there are some US specific challenges due to your government type)   The FDA should be staffed AND have the power to adequately manage the required inspections 

[Scampi]

Maybe we should all start a boycott??????????

[Scampi]

Maybe we should all start a boycott??????????

Research Paper

Impact of the Global Food Safety Initiative on Food Safety

Worldwide: Statistical Analysis of a Survey of International

Food Processors

PHILIP G. CRANDALL,1* ANDY MAUROMOUSTAKOS,2 CORLISS A. O’BRYAN,1 KEVIN C. THOMPSON,2

FRANK YIANNAS,3 KERRY BRIDGES,3 AND CATHERINE FRANCOIS4

1Department of Food Science, University of Arkansas, Fayetteville, Arkansas 72704, USA; 2Agriculture Statistics Lab, University of Arkansas, Fayetteville,

Arkansas 72701, USA; 3Walmart Stores, Inc., 702 S.W. 8th Street, Bentonville, Arkansas 72716, USA; and 4Diversey Consulting, Sealed Air, Paris, France

 

Anyone notice anything here????????????????????   Well I'll be, look who financed this "research"

 

https://www.research...mxpY2F0aW9uIn19

[Scampi]

So I went down the research rabbit hole for a minute and what I found is disturbing..............I found 1, yes one site that TRIED to correlate independently the number of recalls before/after companies adopted a GFSI scheme.........and what this particular investigation found was an 18% INCREASE in Class I recalls year/year

 

AND all the other "research" I found was performed by with the GFSI themselves, or by retailers (skewed much???)

Figure 1A shows a slight reduction of just over 6% in overall food safety recalls. However, there is an increase of over 18% in Class 1 recalls, which represent the highest risk to public health, as well as an increase of over 28% in Class 3 recalls. One interpretation is that the CFIA is classifying more recalls as Class 1, but this is contradicted by the increase in Class 3 recalls. The remaining interpretation is clear – there are significant deficiencies in the design and performance of existing food safety audits that reduce their value in reducing the risk of financial or brand reputation loss.

A critical examination of existing food safety scheme design, auditor qualification and training identifies three main reasons for the deterioration in audit effectiveness:

• Audit scheme criteria are not competently evaluated based on risk-based outcome. This results in dilution of auditor time, which is spent on audit planning, identifying case-specific risks and evaluating effectiveness of controls.
• Auditors are qualified based on industry experience instead of on actual audit performance, while audit evaluations and reviews are often performed by inexperienced reviewers, further reducing audit value;
• Audit training is clause based and heavy on definitions. It does not use adult learning techniques or effectively train auditors in risk-based audit preparation, performance and communication skills.

To conclude, addressing these root causes of ineffective food safety audits will go a long way in achieving the goal of these audits –reducing the risk of food safety recalls and resulting loss of consumer trust.

 

http://blog.globalfo...mber-of-recalls

Edited by Scampi, 16 April 2024 - 03:54 PM.

[ChristinaK]

Do you think it's possible that recalls have increased due to industry awareness of food safety and preventive measures?

 

I wonder if looking at recalls that were initiated after the food company discovered the need for one vs. the public or gov. agency making the food company aware of the need for a recall would better illustrate the impact (if any) GFSI certification has on food safety?

 

(Are we getting off-topic at this point?-honest question)