11 replies to this topic

[J.osh]

I'm hoping that fire exit doors being left open is not a problem that just occurs at my site 😄

It does get warm in our factory, so our operators tend to leave fire exit doors open for the air flow, which of course, they shouldn't be doing.

I was looking into fly screen doors. Would this be an acceptable way to allow our fire exit doors to be open whilst still preventing pests?

Thanks.

[Syzygy]

I would check that with Health and Safety as well before spending any money on screens. For fire safety reasons that should always be kept shut, so they might not be happy that you are trying to encourage this bad habit with a screen :D might bring up some safety concerns as well that a fire exit is being blocked with a screen.

[Dorothy87]

Hi :) 

 

Yes, as long as you will have a good risk assessment from both sides - Foods safety and H&S. 

There is a company in UK who is making such fire doors with mesh which doesn't affect H&S and won`t allow any pests to entrance the site. 

is called two way swing 

 

https://www.fbiltd.c...fly-screen.htm 

 

 

[Setanta]

Does that affect Product Security? Could anyone access the production floor?

[SQFconsultant]

I knew a girl once that said she was a two-way swing - never understood what she meant.

 

Anyway, I don't understand how a fire door can be left open with a screen in place.

 

I would think it better that ownership would invest in a better HVAC system.

 

oh, dang, now I get what she meant!!!

[Setanta]

HA ha ha, I was so focused on the screen part of the question, I ignored the FIRE DOOR part!

 

Good catch Glenn!  Sorry about your missed opportunity, though! 

[jfrey123]

Screens aren't liked much by auditors, so from a food safety standpoint you should have a daily or twice daily schedule to inspect to make sure the screens aren't ripped and also don't have any gaps in their frame.

 

From an employee safety standpoint, if the screen is solid in the frame, you've added a hazard to employees who need to leave in a hurry due to fire.  Fire doors are supposed to open outward in the event of a stampede of people, so it might work if you design it to break away or freely open outward when a ton of people are trying to burst through it.  Refer to your country's worker safety rules for fire exits.

[TimG]

"Screens aren't liked much by auditors, so from a food safety standpoint you should have a daily or twice daily schedule to inspect to make sure the screens aren't ripped and also don't have any gaps in their frame."

 

I've had screens in overhead doors in every food manufacturer I've worked in for 15 years and I've never run into an auditor that batted an eye at them. As long as there were no tears in them at time of inspection, they fit flush, and I could show from routine (monthly) GMP inspections that we verified they were adequate (tears, flush, etc.) during each inspection it was never an issue. 

Obviously if they are ripped to hell during an audit that would be a problem. 

The fact they are fire doors though is a different ball of wax for H&S.

[jfrey123]

I've had screens in overhead doors in every food manufacturer I've worked in for 15 years and I've never run into an auditor that batted an eye at them. As long as there were no tears in them at time of inspection, they fit flush, and I could show from routine (monthly) GMP inspections that we verified they were adequate (tears, flush, etc.) during each inspection it was never an issue. 

Obviously if they are ripped to hell during an audit that would be a problem. 

The fact they are fire doors though is a different ball of wax for H&S.

 

I'm glad you've had that experience.  My auditors have always seemed to harp not only on the pest risk (asking for proof they're being monitored, checking for gaps during the actual walkthrough, etc), but it also makes them question and scrutinize my air/EMP monitoring as well as food security programs more stringently.  Screens can be done correctly, but you need to make sure your ducks are in a row through your hazard analysis of their use.

[G M]

Air intakes usually have particulate filters, and this screen door wouldn't.  Some of our facilities are in rural areas where dust would be a problem, and others in urban environments where auto fumes or other pungent emissions would be entering.  Not to mention the vastly increased risks for food defense.  Pests aren't the only thing those doors keep out.

[Shrimper]

My first thought here was food defense. An open door would not fly very well in terms of a food defense plan. A screen does not seem much safer in defending the food. Not sure on your plant layout either. 

[Hoosiersmoker]

What do you produce?

 

As a CSM I would have a big issue with leaving an emergency exit open. Even security type screen doors don't offer much security. it would also likely have to open in which is never going to be acceptable. Is there some type of electronic entry restriction on your other doors (codes, biometrics, or card / fob readers)? If yes, why? My guess would be security reasons. That being the case you would need to add the same level of security to the screened doors that you have on other entry points. My advice would be tell them to leave the doors closed at all times to avoid security breaches, add fans or additional air intake measures, and add door alarms to all of the doors leading outside that aren't considered entrance points in case someone does decide to break the rule. The SQF Practitioner in me says they control insects but how are you preventing dust and airborne contaminants form entering your facility? That's why I asked what you produce because it might make a difference.

[GMO]

Yes in short.

 

But the answer as others have intimated is "yes but..."

 

The screen needs to be fine enough (I think AIB recommend no wider than 6mm from memory but I'd go smaller).  It needs to sit flush with no gaps, close fully.  It needs to not compromise safety (ability to escape but also prevent fire spread) so get your safety colleagues involved.  It needs to not compromise site security (and don't just think about locks but if the mesh is fine can it be cut easily).  Dust shouldn't be an issue unless there's a major risk outside because after all we're not talking high care here (or shouldn't be).

 

All of these might preclude their use, or they might not.  I've successfully used them in several manufacturers and we do have to be realists that if you don't put in an alternative, the doors will be opened if it's 40oC in the room.

 

HVAC / air con investment is of course the ideal.  BUT do you know how much that costs?  It's not just about chilling the air but about the compressors and the air movements required to get the cooling.  Most systems are under specified.  But also engage your environmental colleagues too as they are super energy hungry.  An alternative short term is local air con but they can be worse than useless.

 

With this consider the risk of what you're doing but also consider what people are likely to do if you do nothing, e.g. fans moving things around and impacting checkweighers, doors open etc.