11 replies to this topic

[TimG]

Just a little survey to give me an idea of the lay of the land. During my New Years employee development, one of my employees expressed her concerns in further development because she felt that she would never be able to transition to a management role with her current degrees.

I disagreed, but it got me wondering what the 'standard' is.

 

I bet this is going to be vastly different by region, but I didn't see a need to drill it down that far in the questions.

 

[SQFconsultant]

Hi Tim,

 

I don't have a degree and it was my wife that pushed to to get a HS Diploma (I enjoyed the classes, I was the oldest one there and the others were there or they would have had to stay in jail.)

 

With that in mind, I just made it in on the skinny with SQFI, and got grandfathered in as one of the first SQF Auditors.

 

This is what I've found over the course of my life thus far - it used to be that those "higher ups" required this and that degree to do this and that job and it seemed to me to be based on what degrees they themselves had regardless of relevance/need of the position.

 

Reflecting back, when the company I was working for in the corporate world finally realized that I lacked a degree and I was in a management role they started trying to figure out how to take me out - and it didn't matter that I was one of best managers, clients liked me, etc.

 

That company now bases things on merit, experience, etc and not on a piece of paper - gee I wonder how that changed, part of it might have been the lawsuit.

 

In my own company we do not require degree's, don't require college and really don't care about HS diplomas - I want experience and/or someone we can train into a position (not really train - more guide) and I see many changes coming in this area.

 

Funny thing is, I felt that I could be the Vice President of one of those really large fruit companies out in California some years back, so I applied - I got thru all the hoops and was right at the point of being offered the position and boom, the hammer came down and I was told that even though I had boo-Q experience I did not have that degree so I asked why I needed it and no one could explain why- only that the HR company that wrote the requirements put it down as a requirement and it was at that instant that I realized I did not want to work for such as lame ass company.

 

So, later this month I am interviewing a couple of people and I've gotten a couple of submissions thus far, some with degrees too - they are all on a level playing field regardless.

[TimG]

Hey Glenn,

"it used to be that those "higher ups" required this and that degree to do this and that job and it seemed to me to be based on what degrees they themselves had regardless of relevance/need of the position."

I've seen this several times, usually in companies that loudly decry their inability to find good managers. I don't have an anti-degree stance, but I definitely don't feel degree automatically = good manager.

[kfromNE]

Upper level/Corporate level at a major corporation - most likely will need a Ph.D. 

 

"Traditional" QC jobs including management - job descriptions usually say a degree in a certain field OR so many years of experience. I got my current job because I had the degree but not the experience. 

 

It's more about skill set and what a company needs. I was hired at my current job because they have tons of people with work experience in the field but lacked someone with the technical knowledge - my boss included. I brought that technical/scientific background. My management skills (my boss is strong in) lacked and I know this. This is what I work on a lot because it's an area I'm not strong in. 

 

I have 2 master degrees but I needed them for the field/area of study I originally went to school for. They have helped me with the technical/scientific parts. I enjoy research and understanding the science behind things. My degrees helped me with a set of skills to build on vs starting at the ground up. The scientific background - a skill set that my current boss has very little of knowledge and isn't an interest of his. My supervisors - a ton of work related knowledge. 

I am a balance to both of their skill sets. 

[acarver]

I have a MS in another field. I did help me when it came time to write policy and procedures, but other than that, the degree I have is useless where I am now.

[G M]

I have a MS in another field. I did help me when it came time to write policy and procedures, but other than that, the degree I have is useless where I am now.

 

 

Falling into STEM or biological sciences is about as close as mine gets.  I find that to be pretty common for most people, and have advised a few young people looking at degrees and not feeling like they had something available that fit their goals -- do not take them as a square-peg round-hole type dilemma.

[jfrey123]

I was a late bloomer for college, completing a bachelors in Transportation and Logistics Management with a concentration in Reverse Logistics at the age of 30.  I was already a QA supervisor at the time, and I believe experience and training (including food safety certs) are far more valuable.

 

The degree is helpful in getting interviews, as many companies reject online applications for management roles where no degree is listed on the intake form.  I like to point out that having experience in warehousing in my youth, combined with formal logistics training in college, is a perk for a QA role as I'm more rounded to the needs of the business.  It absolutely helped when I was consulting, as my partner and I focused on round supply chain ideas and solutions.

 

For my role on a corporate FSQA team now, we've had to replace a few plant level QA managers and our most successful candidates have come from within.  When we recognize talent and interest, we try to promote techs and provide training to them to boost their value to the company.  Many don't have college degrees, but between certifications and guidance, we have found success.

[nwilson]

I have had the pleasure of working with a lot of really smart and technical people who had years of formal education under their belt and some who didn't have any education outside of high school.  I myself studied culinary with achieving an AA and started working full time when I was 16 y/o in a sandwich shop.  FSQA found me ironically after years of working in an out of restaurants and retail applications (all still in the food sectors) and now have been in this field for a decade and a half.  We all come from varying backgrounds and provide new and interesting perspectives and I think that this is what makes this profession and the individuals so great to be part of.  Working in FSQA keeps me on my toes and is always a learning trajectory which I like a lot.  

 

I do agree with what has been said to a certain point that a degree does get you in the door faster as this is still viewed as a must in some organizations.  I have always valued experience over an expensive piece of paper.  Most of my hires and promotions came from within or were due to having worked in the field for a length of time.  Folks who have seen things and had to deal with them in real time seem to be more well rounded and provide more value.  This is not to say that a technical knowledge is not needed, its more that you have to have a certain cadence to preserve in this industry and a college degree (straight out of college) doesn't always cover all the bases in my experience.  You have to have the best of both worlds, be technical and practical.  

[MaggieB]

I only have a high school diploma. This has not stopped me from applying to QA management positions that list bachelors degrees in their requirements. It has only come up as an issue in an interview once, where I was applying for a Lab Supervisor position and the VP of Quality told me that she wasn't worried about my lack of degree for that position but that not having at least a bachelors would hinder my career development in that particular company. 

 

When getting into QA, I had the benefit of having some extensive production experience at a large recognizable company (I had started as a entry level inspector, and over my 9 years at that company worked as a forklift driver, machine operator in 7 or 8 different positions and QC tech.) and that experience, now combined with several years of FSQA experience under multiple titles (QA technician, QA Supervisor, QA Specialist, QA Manager.), has carried me far in my career. My current job listed bachelors degree in their job posting, hired me anyways based on my experience, and ultimately ended up removing the degree requirement from the job description. 

 

I would encourage you employee not to worry so much about her degrees and to focus on broadening her experience and knowing how to leverage that experience. I have seen all kinds of fools walk into manufacturing positions with all kinds of fancy degrees, and have no idea how to function in a live manufacturing environment, day to day. Experience will often (and usually SHOULD) trump degrees, IMO. 

[Scampi]

I firmly believe our role(s) prove successful to a TYPE of person, rather than an educational level and companies would do well to understand that

 

you can teach anyone (or mostly anyone) theory, what you cannot teach is

 

• technical thought processes
• clear heads under pressure
• critical thinking
• how to achieve the desired result without complicating things or making them burdensome

[AtomicDancer]

Big corporations usually list "B.S. in science field" as a required. Smaller companies usually list "B.S. in science field OR experience". 

Honestly, I have a degree in Chemistry. I haven't used most of that degree since I got it back in 2007, and have forgotten so much of it. But, it still gets me jobs. *shrug* 

 

Personally, the focus should be more on experience than a degree. 

[TimG]

Thanks for all the great feedback, folks! All of this was pretty much in line with my thoughts so it's good to see smarter people than myself have similar thoughts on the matter.