7 replies to this topic

[INL]

Hi there, 

 

I’d like to ask those of you who have a warehouse with goods that need refrigeration:

 

In our fridge, we store products like butter and margarine, keeping them refrigerated as standard practice. The fridge is equipped with automatic temperature loggers that allow us to monitor the temperature continuously via a PC, and there’s also a display showing the current temperature outside the fridge.

After a discussion with our supplier regarding the butter and margarine they deliver, they informed us that margarine can be stored at room temperature for up to two weeks without compromising quality. Based on this information and their testing, we assessed the risk for these products as low.

 

My question is: do we still need to log the temperature daily, even though we have an automatic logging system, and the quality department reviews the temperature data monthly to ensure compliance with requirements? From the requirement I understand that procedure meets the requirements for low-risk products like butter and margarine and therefore, daily manual logging is not required unless the automatic system fails. 

 

And we have in our procedure such thing that IF the system fails, then we do manual temperature logging 

[chrisrushworth]

Hi there, 

 

I’d like to ask those of you who have a warehouse with goods that need refrigeration:

 

In our fridge, we store products like butter and margarine, keeping them refrigerated as standard practice. The fridge is equipped with automatic temperature loggers that allow us to monitor the temperature continuously via a PC, and there’s also a display showing the current temperature outside the fridge.

After a discussion with our supplier regarding the butter and margarine they deliver, they informed us that margarine can be stored at room temperature for up to two weeks without compromising quality. Based on this information and their testing, we assessed the risk for these products as low.

 

My question is: do we still need to log the temperature daily, even though we have an automatic logging system, and the quality department reviews the temperature data monthly to ensure compliance with requirements? From the requirement I understand that procedure meets the requirements for low-risk products like butter and margarine and therefore, daily manual logging is not required unless the automatic system fails. 

 

And we have in our procedure such thing that IF the system fails, then we do manual temperature logging 

 

 

I would review clause 4.15.3 ...

Regarding monitoring / alarms if not the clauses states that there will be physical 4 hourly checks.

[INL]

Exactly, but this is overkill with temperature logging every 4 hours including weekends. We do not have people who are working at facility on weekends, that is why we have installed sensors and automatic temperature logging. As I have described we made a risk assessment of the product that we keep there as well.
We would do manual logging in case the sensor would fail, but still would be enough with daily logg, not every 4 hours, but I guess I could take this discussion with auditor when time comes.
My question is if we need to do the daily logg even though we see what temperature is ever basically second

[INL]

Exactly, but this is overkill with temperature logging every 4 hours including weekends. We do not have people who are working at facility on weekends, that is why we have installed sensors and automatic temperature logging. As I have described we made a risk assessment of the product that we keep there as well.
We would do manual logging in case the sensor would fail, but still would be enough with daily logg, not every 4 hours, but I guess I could take this discussion with auditor when time comes.
My question is if we need to do the daily logg even though we see what temperature is every basically second

[chrisrushworth]

Exactly, but this is overkill with temperature logging every 4 hours including weekends. We do not have people who are working at facility on weekends, that is why we have installed sensors and automatic temperature logging. As I have described we made a risk assessment of the product that we keep there as well.
We would do manual logging in case the sensor would fail, but still would be enough with daily logg, not every 4 hours, but I guess I could take this discussion with auditor when time comes.
My question is if we need to do the daily logg even though we see what temperature is ever basically second

 

Do you have an alarm call out / email system set to send you out alerts if the chiller fails?

You can then do a  "challenge" test, were you leave a door / turn off a compressor to simulate an error and then show the call / email log to show you have 24-7 monitoring?

I would suggest that you still have a daily log, either physical or download from TMS system.

You need to do your own RA to determine the food safety risks if your chiller system failed... would you then dispose of or further treat foods that have breached a chilled environment.

 

How would you justify the length of time that the chiller has been OOS if you do not have physical checks? or "simulation" tests?

 

Think about your mock recall... you have to do this to prove that your system works, same theory behind TMS and alarms....

What every you decide, you have to be able to jusitfy it to an auditor..

 

Just remember if the standard states SHALL we have no defence....

[INL]

Yes, we have an email call out, but that is very good point actually about the simulation, will do that, thank you for a good advise!
Well then we will keep the daily logging as we have still have now.

Thank you for your good points!

[siskos]

My opinion is that if you have a relyable alarm system you do not have the obligation to record manually the temperatures. You just have to verify that the loggers are working properly and the alarm systems is working good too.

[GMO]

If I were your auditor I'd argue that email call out is not an alert.  Unless you or the alertee is constantly checking emails over a weekend, how would you know?  

 

I also agree with the above, what's the wording about automated systems, that there should be a failure alert system which is routinely tested?   I know that this is in relation to things like metal detection or temperature on lines but it could easily be applied to room temperatures.

 

The ideal though would be a test or alert to a phone which then beeps or rings.  I don't think an email covers it.  I would certainly at least advise improvement on that system if that's what someone had in place.