10 replies to this topic

[Scampi]

This is the best article I've read that does a great job of explaining WHY GFSI will NEVER work as a tool to make food safer

 

As long as the schemes remain a paperwork exercise where the focus is on ticking boxes and NOT on ensuring safe food, nothing will change

 

https://www.food-saf...ograms-efficacy

[kingstudruler1]

I believe that me and you are on the same page with GFSI audits.   Or at least close. 

 

However,  they should just replace the article with your last sentence.  

[MDaleDDF]

Agreed.  GFSI = Jump through the hoops and send us our check, and we're good to go.

[G M]

One of the major problems is that small manufacturers are challenged to perform the kind of validation needed to replace the widely accepted schemes, and public institutions don't have the resources to do it for them.  

[kfromNE]

Agreed.  GFSI = Jump through the hoops and send us our check, and we're good to go.

 

 

GFSI audits are the equivalent to standardized tests we had to take in school.

They are done once a year.

Both last about a week

Schools/businesses are graded on them vs what is actually happening. 

Teachers have to focus on teaching to the test vs actually teaching students how to learn. Businesses focus on checking the boxes (like Scampi said)

Same set of standards for a wide array students/businesses 

Leaves you mentally exhausted at the end.

Spend most of your time sitting at a desk/table 

A few benefits but more negative than positive 

 

Like the others have said. I spend so much time preparing for the audit that it leaves less time to dig into other areas that need to be improved. 

[G M]

 

GFSI audits are the equivalent to standardized tests we had to take in school.

They are done once a year.

Both last about a week

Schools/businesses are graded on them vs what is actually happening. 

Teachers have to focus on teaching to the test vs actually teaching students how to learn. Businesses focus on checking the boxes (like Scampi said)

Same set of standards for a wide array students/businesses 

Leaves you mentally exhausted at the end.

Spend most of your time sitting at a desk/table 

A few benefits but more negative than positive 

 

Like the others have said. I spend so much time preparing for the audit that it leaves less time to dig into other areas that need to be improved. 

 

 

I like that analogy.  There are some benefits, but its mostly a parody.

[nwilson]

Agreed.  GFSI = Jump through the hoops and send us our check, and we're good to go.

 

This is my take.  SQF even with "safe" in the name isn't making my product "safer".  Auditors now are spending less and less time in the plant reviewing processes and generally are more about what's for lunch.  They want you to pass and so does the CB.  What I see now is when an auditor isn't finding something, they then want to walk the exterior grounds to find a candy wrapper that fell out of someone's car, just to document a finding.  Its all about that check and creating a system to keep that money flowing.  

 

This is is an interesting article, I do not agree with the reference to ATP being part of an allergen management program.  This is just my pet peeve.  

[G M]

Here's a question inspired by the human trafficking thread.  

 

If your GFSI auditors added 50-100% more audit time (two day audit becomes 4 days) and they spent all that time out on the production floor inspecting the application of your programs, would that lend the process the legitimacy it is missing?

 

It seems unlikely that they would remove what they're doing now, so adding inspection time to the process might be the only way to right this ship.

[MDaleDDF]

Here's a question inspired by the human trafficking thread.  

 

If your GFSI auditors added 50-100% more audit time (two day audit becomes 4 days) and they spent all that time out on the production floor inspecting the application of your programs, would that lend the process the legitimacy it is missing?

 

It seems unlikely that they would remove what they're doing now, so adding inspection time to the process might be the only way to right this ship.

Maybe for some.   Here, you can literally inspect our entire production process in a few hours, as we're a pretty small place, and mixing and packaging take place in the same room.   Any more time than that on our floor, and you're wasting time.

Part of the problem with these schemes is the one size fits all approach.   There are things a company the size of Coca cola needs to do that we don't.   And there's things they have the manpower to do that we don't.

I also agree that it's BS an auditor will find SOMETHING no matter what.  Like a college professor that refuses to give A's, because nobody actually deserves an A.   (Yeah, I had this professor in college, lol)   We've been doing this for 20 years.    I have good buy in on it from the owner, and employees.   The idea that they will not, under any circumstance, leave the building without writing me up, is silly.   Don't get me wrong, if we're not doing something right, by all means.   But my last few write ups have been weak and cringe at best.

I also laughed when Nwilson said the biggest worry is what's for lunch.    Every time man, that's the biggest worry, lol.    "No pizza please, they feed me pizza at every job".....

[Scampi]

Here's a question inspired by the human trafficking thread.  

 

If your GFSI auditors added 50-100% more audit time (two day audit becomes 4 days) and they spent all that time out on the production floor inspecting the application of your programs, would that lend the process the legitimacy it is missing?

 

It seems unlikely that they would remove what they're doing now, so adding inspection time to the process might be the only way to right this ship.

 

No, it's the paperwork burden, and the ridiculous need to come up with new language to explain HACCP in each scheme

I may have an absolute shite culture but still produce wholesome food, these are the sorts of things that need to be removed

 

We are a straightforward process, short shelf, no kill step, no allergens etc etc etc   Lumping me together with a process with a required kill step is crazy, but here we are

 

UNTIL a food safety program is developed by independent experts, and is managed by an independant body (e.g. NOT RETAIL BUSINESS') nothing will change

[Setanta]

Yeah, I do not want to spend 2 days going over all the paperwork, just to spend 2 more days wandering around with someone looking for tiny faults in how things were documented vs how 1 person did that job. 

 

We will never get an independent body to have any authority without by business buy in.