14 replies to this topic

[CSchmidt]

A little under a month ago I had our annual BRCGS food safety audit at our 2 sites.   Our originally scheduled auditor quit the CB before our audit.  We then were assigned to auditor #2 who had never been to our sites before.  On site, the auditor was awful.  They were bragging about how they had given majors to sites that had historically had AA grades.  They were also talking about all the CBs they had worked for and that they were thinking about quitting this CB.  I didn't report them to the CB because they promised they were going to see us through our audit. 

 

Last week, the auditor's boss approved our NCs because we were having a hard time getting a hold of the auditor.  Well, now come to find out Auditor #2 quit without giving the CB our audit reports.  The CB informed us that now we are going to have to redo both sites audits.   

 

I'm super frustrated.  Are there no checks and balances on the auditors?  Anyone else been through something like this?

[Jimimacintire]

I had an auditor tell me this was his last audit before he left the CB. I think it was for RSPO audit. He skimmed over items, left early, but we still were certified.

[CSchmidt]

At least you still got certified!  I don't understand how the CBs don't have a better handle on their auditors.  

Edited by CSchmidt, 01 July 2025 - 06:47 PM.

[GMO]

I think the reality is CB underpay, sometimes don't even pay travel time and so are struggling even more than factories to get experienced people to audit.  We had someone for one large CB who boasted about his "3 years of experience" and then argued with us on something I'd have eaten my hat if it was a food safety risk.  I clearly told him I'd challenge it and he backed down.

 

That's what comes of inexperience sadly.  I could have been being a complete a**e and done that about a genuine food safety issue if I'd wanted and probably could have got away with it.  I had another miscount non cons.  The real score would have put us into repeat audit territory so I was nice to her and suggested she'd made a mistake but was there some leeway?  She folded.  Wrong but it saved my bacon.  Probably why I'm so disillusioned now.  

 

The worst one was a while back.  One auditor came for two audits that she graciously agreed to do on the same day.  It only occurred to me later that she would have invoiced the companies separately for two days work when she'd barely done half.

 

Bad practices abound everywhere but when you bring in inexperience as well, they explode.

[Ishau]

As someone who works for a certification body, it saddens me and angers me about the situation you find yourself in through no fault of your own.

If one of my auditors ever spoke to you the way you had reported boasting about raising majors at AA sites they wouldn't be "quitting".

Are you in the UK? If you are and you wanted to move to a different certification body, I could sort out both of your audits for you and help bring trust for certification bodies back to you.

I would ask that no matter where you are that you please complain directly to BRCGS about this. BRCGS are great at holding certification bodies to account, but they can only do so if they know about it. Unfortunately I have been to too many audits where the site has told me about their previous bad experiences only to say they didn't complain to BRCGS directly.

All I would ask is, whilst I can I appreciate in this thread is some shockingly bad experiences, that you don't believe that all certification bodies and all auditors are that bad. That is far from the truth and I hope you are able to arrange your next audits with better providers.

[G M]

... The CB informed us that now we are going to have to redo both sites audits.   

 

...

 

Failure was completely on their part, so is it at least going to be no additional charge?

[CSchmidt]

There's no charge but there's also no compensation for my time or my team's time.  Not to mention the mental stress this has caused to both our sites.  My senior management is understandably peed.  

[beautiophile]

I never did, but I think you can complain to BRCGS

https://tellusbrcgs....wernetwork.net/

 

As they rate their CBs,

https://directory.brcgs.com/

 

My company once changed to a CB with lower rating and their auditor was arrogant & less knowledgeable (no surprise at all). We switched back to the former once the COVID-19 passed.

[SQFconsultant]

I don't know if this will work or not but you may want to file a complaint on the Auditor by contacting COMPLIANCE at www SQFI.com

 

However I really don't know how that will work out.

 

With that said however, a recent client had an Auditor doing an SQF audit that after walking thru the entire facility with no gigs, he asks to do a check on the metal detector - now the operator made a boo boo simply because they were nervous - the boo boo being he forgot to run the non-ferrous sample. the first time only - but the Auditor starts yelling "I Knew I'd find something to write up" and proceeds to issue a MAJOR - We worked it out with the CB and compliance got involved too - based  on the facts and his lack of professionalism that Major was pulled out.

 

Yup!  There are really wonderful Auditors out there but there seems to be an ever growing number of bad ones along with a bunch of CB s that truly suck eggs.

[Tony-C]

Hi CSchmidt,

 

As mentioned in a previous post by beautiophile, complaints can be reported confidentially on the Tell BRCGS reporting system: Tell BRCGS Reporting system

 

See more details in my post here: Longest Wait for Audit Report: Share Your Experiences - Post 11

 

I'm not quite sure why Glenn is suggesting to complain to SQFI? 

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony

 

[GMO]

I think an anonymous complaint is good.  I'm sadly old enough to realise what a small world it is.  I would make my complaint careful enough so the auditor doesn't know where it's come from.  If I can't do that, I wouldn't raise it.

 

But also if you consider the CB body is having to repeat the audit, it's likely the person left on very bad terms.  Their name is going to be mud anyway.  Even if you do get a complaint accepted, will it change that?

 

So all you can work on is you and your team.  Get everyone together and get some food in, say the biggest thank you that you can and share the news.  It's crap but it's what it is.  You're sadly going to have more moments like this in the food industry where stuff happens which is completely outside your team's control but it still hits your team.

 

Then plan something REALLY good for when it's all done as a celebration.  Get the company to chip in some cash and get the team to decide now what it is they'd like to do.  Turn the crap situation into one where your team think you're the dogs gonads.  

[SQFconsultant]

My bad, I missed this was about BRC an not SQF.  

[stevenbernardino]

I recently had an SQF audit. For the past 6 audits we have done an amazing job. Scores were always in the mid to low 90's or so. The auditors all had experience for 20 or more years within the baking industry and knew the struggles of a small business. This year, we had a brand new auditor, their first audit ever. Tagging along with them was a "witness". Well, it did not go too well this year. We were issued a major because someone was nervous and messed up around the metal detector. 

Another major was issued for my baking kill step. In the matter of bread and rolls, dough must go through a kill step in order to become bread. If bread is underbaked, it is very apparent and would never make it to the packaging line. Basically, if the baking step failed, you would not have viable product. This has always been our argument as to why baking is not a CCP. Well, I got a major for that this year. But how come for my past six audits that justification was good? How come that justification is good with the FDA and the state as well? Why was it not good enough for this auditor? 

I have a problem with the subjectivity of these audits. 

[Killian]

Another major was issued for my baking kill step. In the matter of bread and rolls, dough must go through a kill step in order to become bread. If bread is underbaked, it is very apparent and would never make it to the packaging line. Basically, if the baking step failed, you would not have viable product. This has always been our argument as to why baking is not a CCP. Well, I got a major for that this year. But how come for my past six audits that justification was good? How come that justification is good with the FDA and the state as well? Why was it not good enough for this auditor? 

I have a problem with the subjectivity of these audits. 

 

I remember reading this thread where there was an interesting conversation about this, and overall I think people agreed that the baking step would not be a CCP if without it you would not produce a viable product.

 

https://www.ifsqn.co...s-baking-a-ccp/

 

But I'm having trouble finding a black and white source supporting that in a way which would be helpful in disputing a NC. There has to be something you can do though, that major feels super unjustified.

 

I'll keep poking around and hopefully something useful turns up.

[Lynx42]

Another major was issued for my baking kill step. In the matter of bread and rolls, dough must go through a kill step in order to become bread. If bread is underbaked, it is very apparent and would never make it to the packaging line. Basically, if the baking step failed, you would not have viable product. This has always been our argument as to why baking is not a CCP. Well, I got a major for that this year. But how come for my past six audits that justification was good? How come that justification is good with the FDA and the state as well? Why was it not good enough for this auditor? 

 

I want to say underbaked bread was literally the example they used in my HACCP training to show examples of what is not a CCP.  

 

Our last auditor had lots of auditing experience... in non-food environments.  We had to explain to him, in detail, things in our food defense program and various other steps because he had no clue.  I (think, I may change my mind later) would rather have a new auditor who has operational experience in a food grade warehouse than someone who takes the standard absolutely literally and dinged us for not having a specific calibration only SOP when we have 2 scales we only use occasionally for shipping purposes and have it referenced in both our contract service providers and maintenance policy and schedule.  He also suggested we write a document that spells out specifically what building materials were used in our building.  Huh???  We are a 3PL with no exposed foods and the standard says noting about building materials being documented (mod 12).