9 replies to this topic

[Orion_sqf]

Hello! 

The company that I work for has already been certified with SQF, but now they want to have several facilities to be organic manufacturing. Our company is mainly doing breadcrumbs and the consultant we have for Organic is telling us that we need to have a completely separate Paperwork for Organic even though we plan to run non-organic products after it. I saw another commentor on another post, state that they just had a section at the top of the paperwork to specific if the production is Organic or Non-organic. I see the arguments for both sides but I'm not sure if that is necessary. This was not expressly explained at the beginning of the process. 

 

Our organic certification is right around the corner on the 02/19. 

 

Please any advice is welcome! 

[Scampi]

It really doesn't matter what you think (sorry) but what is demanded by the CB and the scheme

so if they tell you that's what's required, then there are 2 options, do it that way or forgo altogether

 

you betcha you need CLEAR and sometimes separate paperwork for organic

 

you also need to use organic approved detergents and sanitizers

 

 

you need to mass balance inbound organic materials against outbound finished goods (which is very different than a trace)

 

it will also be a separate audit on a separate date

Edited by Scampi, Yesterday, 06:49 PM.

[SQFconsultant]

Your consultant is correct.

 

And I may add, with your 2/19 date being in 15 days I suggest  you push that off or be prepared to work non-stop - I suggest pushing the date into March.

[Orion_sqf]

It really doesn't matter what you think (sorry) but what is demanded by the CB and the scheme

so if they tell you that's what's required, then there are 2 options, do it that way or forgo altogether

 

you betcha you need CLEAR and sometimes separate paperwork for organic

 

you also need to use organic approved detergents and sanitizers

 

 

you need to mass balance inbound organic materials against outbound finished goods (which is very different than a trace)

 

it will also be a separate audit on a separate date

 

Thank you for your insight! 

 

Would you be able to elaborate on what the differences are with the mass inbound organic materials against outbound finished goods and a product trace?

 

Also I don't know what the CB's standard is and only going off of the consultant's advice, which makes me wonder due to the fact that, from my understanding, the Organic Program wants to make absolutely sure that a facility can safeguard the integrity of the product and is able to track said product. But as you said it's probably best to follow the consultant's advice.     

 

We already have the organic approved detergents and sanitizers, Organic pesticides, and the separation of utensils/tools/bins.... We are really just at the home stretch of getting approved. 

[Orion_sqf]

Your consultant is correct.

 

And I may add, with your 2/19 date being in 15 days I suggest  you push that off or be prepared to work non-stop - I suggest pushing the date into March.

 

Thank you for your insight!

I would love to push this date further down the road, unfortunately that's not an option due to personnel and timelines for our customers. 

Now that I know this is the expectation, I think it would be easier as I still have the SQF framework to go off of versus making all the paperwork from scratch. I'm highly optimistic that we will be good for this audit.  

[GMO]

Also I don't know what the CB's standard is and only going off of the consultant's advice, which makes me wonder due to the fact that, from my understanding, the Organic Program wants to make absolutely sure that a facility can safeguard the integrity of the product and is able to track said product. But as you said it's probably best to follow the consultant's advice.     

 

 

You cannot go into an audit without having seen the standard. 

Get it today. Then you can see what it is you're working to. Otherwise it will be painful.

 

I'd also recommend delaying if you could but if that's not an option, make your manager / site director aware of the risk. Better to be up front that this is very late in the day than have a disastrous audit later without warning. I hope for you it will be fine but I am sorry to say that not having seen the standard 2 weeks away from audit is not setting you guys up for success.

[Orion_sqf]

You cannot go into an audit without having seen the standard. 

Get it today. Then you can see what it is you're working to. Otherwise it will be painful.

 

I'd also recommend delaying if you could but if that's not an option, make your manager / site director aware of the risk. Better to be up front that this is very late in the day than have a disastrous audit later without warning. I hope for you it will be fine but I am sorry to say that not having seen the standard 2 weeks away from audit is not setting you guys up for success.

 

Thank you for your insight.

I have made the request ASAP and will be updating my upper management about the situation as well. 

I'm glad that I posted because the information that I have been receiving has been great. 

Thank you all! 

[Scampi]

When you do a trace, you just need to show where the item (ingredient/packaging) came from and then follow it through to see where it shipped to

 

Now, a mass balance will require you to account for ALL of a lot

 

So if you get in say 1000 kg of an organic ingredient, you need to be able to show where ALL of that 1000 kgs went   which will require you to also have a line item added for waste so you can track it

 

So it is a full trace, but by USE not sales units

 

 

What is the difference between traceability and mass balance?

 

Auditors often select products with specific claims (e.g., organic) for mass balance exercises, as these necessitate robust substantiation. In conclusion, traceability forms the foundation, vertical audits provide supporting evidence, and mass balance ensures quantitative accuracy.Apr 11, 2024

 

https://1stc.uk/brc-...tative accuracy.

 

 

Hope that is helpful 

 

https://mosaorganic....udits-explained

[TimG]

My suggestion, do your mass balances on a regular basis, starting with incoming lot and tracked from everything received in that lot to FG. You don't want to be rushing to do mass balances before your next Organic audit and find you somehow gained a few hundred pounds of organic...

[Lynx42]

Do you have an Organic Systems Plan?

 

You'll also need to be able to track everywhere it was in the warehouse.  Our auditor picks a pallet and wants to know where else it was in the warehouse as well as what else was in al locations before it, e.g. we had it in A123 and moved it to D123.  She wanted to see everything that was in A123 and D123 for the month before it was placed there.