6 replies to this topic

[suemal]

Hi
we recently had a major non conformance against BRC as i was auditing the quality system, even though i am BRC third & first party trained I cannot audit my own systems, therefore they suggest either paying an external auditor (which is out of the question!!) or that other members of the management team conduct these audits, my problem is i do not have any training documents to train the other members, hence i was wondering whether anybody had any or whether if i should just state that i trained them by just showing them what to do and look for etc!!!
any help much appreciated!!

[Koko LMQ]

You can use the ISO 19011 for training materials

NY

[suemal]

unfortunately i dont have access to ISO materials

[Koko LMQ]

Go to http://www.iso.org/iso/home.htm

NY

[Esther]

Dear Suemal

Thank for your sharing your experience with us. This encourage me to write down mine and make a question that has been in my minf for long.

I was in a similar situation as yours, running the Quality department, implementing and AUDITING my own work. As you, I have never thought in contract a internal audit because according to my experience, I could not take any advantage of it in the past ( I do not find competent auditor in my region for a reasonable price ).

So, I decided to audit my own work . Finally we only had 5 minor non conformities and although the auditor say to me what I already know " people shall not audit their own work " she did not mention this point in her report. In my opinion, this auditor is one of the few sensible audits within this world of auditors.

I really would like to know the criteria of others auditors regarding this issue or know some others experiences from others members.

What would happen if an auditor finds out that a company has only 1 major non conformity regarding " QMS general requirements" and that the internal audit has been carried out by the same personnel that have implemented the standard ??

And what if instead a 1 major NC the finding was 15 minor non conformities ??

I would really appreciate any comments or what you would do.

Thank you

sincerely
Esther

[BVRC]

Hi, there

Interesting post. Hope I never get such a finding. I think if you develop your audit material strictly against whatever standard you have and you train you internal auditors against these or use it yourself it should suffice. If they then audit you and you have training records and material to demonstrate this.....

I have never had experience of question the competance of the QM, only that of the other Internal auditors.

Besides if the results are reported at a review it surely serves as another opinion on the findings.

[GMO]

I'm working as an interim at the moment - BRC in a week and I've just found out the HACCP team leader has been delegating to untrained people! We might not have the issue of her auditing her own work but I'd question whether she could prove the auditors were competent without any training. Ah the daily 'can of worms' joy of being an interim!