7 replies to this topic

[yorkshire]

Peter,

In the English version of IFS there are 3 words which may cause some confusion i.e. Customer, client and consumer.

To me the "consumer" is the person eating the product; the "client" is the person buying the product to sell to the "consumer"; the "customer" can either be the "client" or the "consumer".

In the German text the "customer" and "client" both use der "Kunde" (or relevant case) and for "consumer" use der "Verbraucher".

From this I presume that where the standard uses "customer/client" they are talking about our business side of sales. Therefore section 2.4 "Customer Focus" (Kundenorientierung) is related solely to these business customers.

Now to my point as our company only produces our own brand and the "customer" has no influence over the product do I ignore any clauses which relate to this e.g. 2.3.2 The needs and expectations of the customers shall have an influence on the production process., and should the auditor mark such clauses as N/A?

[Charles Chew]

Hello Yorkshire,

In the English version of IFS there are 3 words which may cause some confusion i.e. Customer, client and consumer.

Well, I am just into BRC / IFS and is not exactly very familiar with the standards yet but I hope this makes sense.

IMO........
CUSTOMER - As what it means, you need to CUSTOMISE to their needs and interests. Hence your compliant level to their SPECIFIC NEEDS determine their purchasing interest

CLIENTS - Seems to me that it is all about QUALITY, LEGALITY, MARKETABILITY, PROFITABILITY, PACKAGING ETC AND ABOVE ALL PRICE...........IMO, compliant level is not paramount but dicatated by the MARKET WISHES.

CONSUMER - These are the guys who determine and set the BENCHMARK for the CUSTOMERS and CLIENTS as they ultimately is the BUSINESS and the MARKET.

The needs and expectations of the customers shall have an influence on the production process

Here the use of CUSTOMER as a single term is to say the least, confusing - I have to agree with Yorkshire.

Question - WHY should a third party be or render any influence at all in how a business is conducted? IMO, a business should be conducted to fulfill needs only WHEN it can be profitable and WHERE it can be practical to meet customer's expectations / satisfaction ONLY if it meets corporate goal to enhance shareholders' values and business critieria makes is viable.

LETS get real!

Charles Chew

[PSchnittger]

Dear Yorkshire

you are right, client and customer are the same in this case (there is a specific meaning in German as well with client, normally used for customers of a lawyer).

How ever. Important is, that you must not ignore 2.3.2 and 2.4. Everything your company is doing has to be customer orientated... So you should describe somthing in your handbook about it. e.g. "our company is observing the market to make sure, that we meet our customers expectation... "

Peter

[yorkshire]

Thanks for that Peter.

It appears that in the German language it is pretty clear who the customer is but in English it is not so clear. (Would a glossary be a good idea).

I didn't really mean we should ignore clauses with "customer" in but it makes a big difference to which area is audited for a clause, e.g. "2.4.1 The needs and expectations of customers shall be the object of a dedicated service". I could take this as our customer care team (complaints ) or our sales department.

[PSchnittger]

"2.4.1 The needs and expectations of customers shall be the object of a dedicated service"

an really interesting translation... If I would have tranlated that, it would be more like "...of the company-policy"

[yorkshire]

I have a colleague from Germany coming over in the next month or so and I will be discussing such issues as this with him.

To me there is a big difference between "object of a dedicated service" and "... of the company policy"

It doesn't really matter if the translation is wrong as we cannot change this and will be audited against the English standard.

Edited by yorkshire, 01 March 2005 - 04:53 PM.

[PSchnittger]

You are right, but normally all auditors should have a common understanding of the requirements, because they are all performing the same exam by HDE. So it might be woth to discuss either with the auditor or HDE itself.

[yorkshire]

I have discussed this (and other ) points with my German Colleagues and they agree with your translation Peter . There is a big difference these clauses. We will have a word with the HDE to try and sort out these differences,