15 replies to this topic

[Jean]

Dear Forum members,

I would like to get some info regarding drying of cured meat at temperatures below 5^oC.
We are doing a trial by taking the topside of the meat (fat removed) and rubbing with rock salt and herbs, this is cured for 20 days , every 2 days the meat is turned. After this the meat is hung to dry in the walk in chiller uncovered and then after drying the meat can be stored in dry conditions for upto 2-3 months.The dish is called breseola (Italian)and is served cold with no cooking step. I hope to get some info on the home made variation of this process (with no preservatives like sodium nitrite).

[Charles.C]

Dear Jean,

I hv absolutely no knowlege about curing meats but these two related links seemed quite interesting to read.

http://mattikaarts.c...resaola-update/

http://mattikaarts.c...la-is-complete/

It is obvious from another link I noticed that the flavouring recipe tends to be a closely guarded secret as per usual in cooking.

Rgds / Charles.C

PS the above product was spelled bresaola, I hope this is the same as with "e"

PPS and one more set, looks more like harry potter than science -

http://curedmeats.bl...1/bresaola.html

http://curedmeats.bl...ola-drying.html

http://curedmeats.bl...la-tasting.html

(apparently the last set mixes do use sodium nitrite as per -

Cure #2, also called "Prague Powder #2", is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite. Cure #2 is used on items that are dry cured over an extended period of time, like salumi or cured meats. The sodium nitrate in the cure breaks down over time to sodium nitrite and that is then broken down to nitric oxide, which acts as an oxidizing agent keeping the meat safe from our most evil of enemies, botulism. It's therefore CRITICAL to making safe cured meats. At least in my mind it is.

http://curedmeats.blogspot.com/

so some thought is obviously required if you intend not to include the nitrite)

[Jean]

Dear Charles,

Thank you for the links. I will revert back.
I think bresaola can be correct , though not sure.

[Jean]

Hi Charles,



As mentioned in all the links, that in case white mould grows on the meat then it has to be wiped with vinegar or tap water and brush needs to be looked on. So far more than 20 days have passed after we have hung the meat in the chiller and have noticed small colonies of white mould in few areas of the meat. As a result, mould growth is being noticed in few areas of the chiller too…



This will take some more time till we arrive at the finished stage.

Edited by Jean, 29 October 2009 - 10:48 AM.

[Jean]

As a result, mould growth is being noticed in few areas of the chiller ceiling & walls. Now we need a clean up schedule atleast every week once.

I will update of how this goes on.

(Is there no way to delete my own post?)

Edited by Jean, 29 October 2009 - 10:51 AM.

[Tony-C]

As a result, mould growth is being noticed in few areas of the chiller ceiling & walls. Now we need a clean up schedule atleast every week once.

Hi Jean

Have you tried fumigation?

Regards,

Tony

[Jean]

Hi Tony,



The white mould growth is quite natural and we brush the meat with vinegar to remove the mould. This reminds me of question if the spores of the moulds are resistant to fumigation?

[Charles.C]

Dear Jean,

I must admit that the "mold" aspect sent various shivers up my spine when I read the (loving) description of these processes in the original links by their obvious enthusiasts. I find the same kind of response to edible moulds in items like blue cheese and stilton. However one can hardly be too "anti" to a family which has produced penicillin and various other amazing natural drugs.

Slightly , I did notice these 2 other fascinating links while researching this subject -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mold
http://www.fsis.usda.../Molds_On_Food/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage

Hv never heard of a horse, Scottish (square), or kangaroo sausage before.

Charles.C

[Tony-C]

Hi Tony,
The white mould growth is quite natural and we brush the meat with vinegar to remove the mould. This reminds me of question if the spores of the moulds are resistant to fumigation?

I appreciate that, fumigation can be effective in controlling mould growth in the environment.

Fumigation can be effective on spores, this will depend entirely on what chemical you are using.

Regards,

Tony

[Jean]

Exceptions: Some salamis -- San Francisco, Italian, and Eastern European types -- have a characteristic thin, white mold coating which is safe to consume; however, they shouldn’t show any other mold. Dry-cured country hams normally have surface mold that must be scrubbed off before cooking.

[b]Molds on Food[/b][b]FOOD[/b] [b]HANDLING[/b] [b]REASON[/b] 
[b]Hard salami and dry-cured country hams[/b]Use. Scrub mold off surface.It is normal for these shelf-stable products to have surface mold.

Dear Charles,

Thanks for this useful pointer. My Italian Chef was telling me the same (traditional dish ).

Black and red pudding sausages are interesting names too. Thanks for the links and its nice to learn about different names of sausages.

[Jean]

I appreciate that, fumigation can be effective in controlling mould growth in the environment.

Fumigation can be effective on spores, this will depend entirely on what chemical you are using.

Thanks Tony, but fumigation will be difficult as we have 24 hours of operation. But may be ,we can think about it in case of severe mould growth.

Currently we are cleaning this particular chiller daily.

[wrightfood]

I will try and answer a few questions here (hi BTW, I am Matt, from Mattikaarts, Charles sent out my link at the start of this thread).

Curing meat effectively below 5C is tricky. The whole drying/curing process slows right down at such low temperatures. Traditionally we see a range of 50-60F - (10-15C). One should also be concerned with humidity at that temperature too. A typical walk-in or fridge has a humidity around 35%, which is far too low to cure meat in effectively. 75% is a rough average that should be aimed at.

As for the mold issues. White mold is typically a very good thing, and should be left on the meat in question. It is favorable to introduce molds of known origin however (these "sausage molds" can be ordered online). Natural molds in the air can be of varying type, so it is often best to introduce molds of known quality.

What you will also find is that the more "good" mold over the meat, the less chance you have of developing unfavorable molds - those that are either blue or green. The correct thing to do if that is the case is just to wipe the meat with a little vinegar solution.

If mold is becoming a big problem, look at air flow in your curing unit. There should be some, otherwise bad molds will develop fast. You can put a slow fan in there, with some vent holes, or do what most people do and leave the door of your curing chamber open a bit.

Hope this helps!

[Charles.C]

Dear Wrightfood / Matt,

It is very kind of you to respond and Welcome to the forum !

Thks for all yr tips, wud be interesting to know if Jean's experiment had an (edible) outcome. Jean ??

Best Regards / Charles.C

[Jean]

Dear Wrightfood / Matt,

It is very kind of you to respond and Welcome to the forum !

Thks for all yr tips, wud be interesting to know if Jean's experiment had an (edible) outcome. Jean ??

Best Regards / Charles.C

Dear Charles,

Yes, our trial was indeed successful. Our chef had made around 10-12 samples and it was edible.We had send the samples at various intervals for testing and it showed no positive growth or increase in counts.

Thank you Matt for your comments and really appreciate your response.

[GMO]

Is it only me where home curing sounds like a terrifying prospect? In the UK a TV chef, Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall does a lot of home curing stuff (see his "meat" book for details). He described using saltpetre (a source of nitrates) as "optional". I dropped them a line and pointed out the rather large benefit of preventing botulism! Did you know that botulism was first found in sausages (presumably cured ones). Botulus means sausage in Latin!

Anyway, being pregnant at the moment, it's one of the many things the UK FSA tell you to avoid but I have to say despite my misgivings about the whole curing thing, it was never salamis that we used to find Listeria on when I used to work in sandwiches, it was always onions!

[Tony-C]

it was never salamis that we used to find Listeria on when I used to work in sandwiches, it was always onions!

They do come from the ground! Did you not wash your onions?

Regards,

Tony