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Yoghurt Risk Assessment (ISO 22000, 7.3 - 7.4.4)


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#76 Charles.C

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:33 AM

Dear Tony,

I have opened/viewed the .xlsx file in a few non-M$ programs. The files shown are of quite similar appearance so hopefully representative for comment purposes. The full-function programs I used are however probably unreliable for saving files / subsequent Excel purposes.

I like the efficient-looking (.xlsx) workbook layout however, as far as the presentation of control measure information goes it seems to me that the layout shown in my earlier attachment can "do the job" also. I noticed the addition of some more detail in the list of control measures in the workbook, thks.

I note the first 2 tabs of yr workbook are waiting to be filled in. No problem if a team of "clickers" is available :smile: .

Simon’s recent post enquired what remaining steps are required to be addressed.

It would certainly be nice IMO if various missing specifications, eg as listed in my previous post, were completed .

However, I suggest that “frills” such as the ones above be added later since the intention of the project is (I think) to benefit other posters with an intelligible / legitimate “conclusion” in a finite time-frame.
I therefore propose to progress to the hazard analysis section of the standard, ie 7.4 et seq.

Rgds / Charles.C


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#77 Tony-C

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:24 PM

Dear Tony,

I like the efficient-looking (.xlsx) workbook layout however, as far as the presentation of control measure information goes it seems to me that the layout shown in my earlier attachment can "do the job" also. I noticed the addition of some more detail in the list of control measures in the workbook, thks.

Rgds / Charles.C


I agree it did and does do the job, this just gives more options for members to play with ! :wtg:

Sorry for the delay, here is the xls version

Attached File  Control Measure Summary Sheets Hazards Sample.xls   80KB   271 downloads

Regards,

Tony
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#78 Simon

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:34 PM

I agree it did and does do the job, this just gives more options for members to play with ! :wtg:

Sorry for the delay, here is the xls version

Attached File  Control Measure Summary Sheets Hazards Sample.xls   80KB   271 downloads

Regards,

Tony

17 days, 1 download, 0 replies. :crybaby:

Come on let's get this one finished.
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Simon Timperley
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#79 Charles.C

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:15 AM

Dear All,

I attach 1st version of an ISO 22000 yoghurt hazard analysis / CCPs etc with some explanatory information on additional sheets as indicated. I hope the content is intelligible.

If you hv any comments/criticisms on the text, please do not hesitate to communicate.

Attached File  ISO 22000 Hazard Analysis for Yoghurt, yha 1.0a.xls   451KB   687 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

PS - Happy Xmas and New Year to Everybody !

:band:


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#80 Tony-C

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 08:02 PM

Dear All,

I attach 1st version of an ISO 22000 yoghurt hazard analysis / CCPs etc with some explanatory information on additional sheets as indicated. I hope the content is intelligible.

If you hv any comments/criticisms on the text, please do not hesitate to communicate.

Attached File  ISO 22000 Hazard Analysis for Yoghurt, yha 1.0a.xls   451KB   687 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

PS - Happy Xmas and New Year to Everybody !

:band:


Thank you Charles I can see some effort has gone into this and as the festive season is upon us I think I will wait until the New Year to comment !

Merry Christmas :santa: & a Happy New Year :beer: !

Tony
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#81 Simon

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 08:08 PM

Excellent work Charles, I'll leave it to the experts to thrash out the details, but thanks for your efforts to culture and keep this topic alive.

Best wishes,
Simon


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#82 hygienic

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:35 PM

Dear All,

I attach 1st version of an ISO 22000 yoghurt hazard analysis / CCPs etc with some explanatory information on additional sheets as indicated. I hope the content is intelligible.

If you hv any comments/criticisms on the text, please do not hesitate to communicate.

Attached File  ISO 22000 Hazard Analysis for Yoghurt, yha 1.0a.xls   451KB   687 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C

PS - Happy Xmas and New Year to Everybody !

:band:



Thanks Charles, the attachement exactly what I am seeking for , I will change the steps and every thing based on our flow diagram and our products ,etc...
Realy helpfull .

Hygienic
Regards
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#83 Tony-C

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 03:59 AM

Dear All,

I attach 1st version of an ISO 22000 yoghurt hazard analysis / CCPs etc with some explanatory information on additional sheets as indicated. I hope the content is intelligible.

If you hv any comments/criticisms on the text, please do not hesitate to communicate.

Attached File  ISO 22000 Hazard Analysis for Yoghurt, yha 1.0a.xls   451KB   687 downloads

Rgds / Charles.C



Hi Charles,

Thanks for all the hard work that has obviously gone into this :clap:

Had a chance to look through it:

Are CCP's 2 & 3 - pastuerisation of cream & skim really CCPs? If the decision tree is inlcuded in the assessment process we would determine that the hazard is removed at a later stage in the process - CCP4 Yoghurt Pasteurisation.

The assessment of control measures doesn't seem to have distinguished between CCP's and OPRP's

I don't believe all the remaining hazards that aren't classified as CCP's are OPRP's and so therefore there should also be categorisation of PRPs & OPRP's - maybe < 10 & < 18

Kind regards,

Tony
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#84 Charles.C

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

Dear Tony,

Thanks for the comments.

Are CCP's 2 & 3 - pastuerisation of cream & skim really CCPs? If the decision tree is inlcuded in the assessment process we would determine that the hazard is removed at a later stage in the process - CCP4 Yoghurt Pasteurisation.

My Note2 was inserted to hopefully neutralise this (I anticipated) arguable point. I suspected that most processors would operationally implement all the pasteurisations as a CCP regardless of any theoretical niceties. :smile:
By "Decision Tree" I assume you are specifically referring to the Codex version. Frankly, I have major reservations over the majority of the variety of trees in current use. Accordingly I decided to avoid trees altogether. I find the method used relatively non-inflammatory. None of the procedures I have seen including current one are ideal IMO (ISO/probability) but since all are probably auditorially acceptable I guess pragmatism rules.

The assessment of control measures doesn't seem to have distinguished between CCP's and OPRP's

Columns O,P,Q…. etc?

I don't believe all the remaining hazards that aren't classified as CCP's are OPRP's and so therefore there should also be categorisation of PRPs & OPRP's - maybe < 10 & < 18

Which hazards are you referring ?

Rgds / Charles.C
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#85 Tony-C

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:41 PM

Hi Charles

Are CCP's 2 & 3 - pastuerisation of cream & skim really CCPs? If the decision tree is inlcuded in the assessment process we would determine that the hazard is removed at a later stage in the process - CCP4 Yoghurt Pasteurisation.


My Note2 was inserted to hopefully neutralise this (I anticipated) arguable point. I suspected that most processors would
operationally implement all the pasteurisations as a CCP regardless of any theoretical niceties. By "Decision Tree" I assume you are specifically referring to the Codex version. Frankly, I have major reservations over the majority of the variety of trees in current use. Accordingly I decided to avoid trees altogether. I find the method used relatively non-inflammatory. None of the procedures I have seen including current one are ideal IMO (ISO/probability) but since all are probably auditorially acceptable I guess
pragmatism rules.


Fine but a simple answer to the question "Will a subsequent step eliminate the hazard" quite clearly eliminates CCP2 & CCP3. If we revert to using the assessment 7.4.4 a-g, & score c 1 (Start relative to yoghurt base pasteurisation) & e 1 (the consequences of failure are not severe) then both would score 16 and be categorised as OPRP's.

The assessment of control measures doesn't seem to have distinguished between CCP's and OPRP's

Columns O,P,Q…. etc?


You have no OPRP's

I don't believe all the remaining hazards that aren't classified as CCP's are OPRP's and so therefore there should also be categorisation of PRPs & OPRP's - maybe < 10 & < 18

Which hazards are you referring ?


All of the hazards:

A hazard assessment shall be conducted to determine, for each food safety hazard identified (see 7.4.2), ............whether its control is needed to enable the defined acceptable levels to be met.


So the initial stage identifies significant hazards - I am assuming that only these are OPRP's & CCP's and all other hazards are controlled by PRPs?


A couple of other things:
FB Control & Filtration - not significant?
I assume that S.aureus controls are expected to control B.cereus as well
There would also need to be some controls of base mixing - it is usually warmed
Coding?

Kind regards,

Tony

Edited by Tony-C, 26 February 2012 - 01:10 PM.

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#86 Charles.C

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:38 PM

Dear Tony,

IMO, yr comments are an excellent demonstration of the subjectivity of the ISO 22000 standard. And its interpretations. Both these results are familiar to traditional HACCP of course.

I suspect ISO’s resurrection of the “validation” card in ISO 22004, thereby diminishing the quantitative significance of the result of the CCP/OPRP categorisation, was their own attempt at closure (escape?).

Based on this forum, the primary requirement for auditorial purposes seems to be a “logical” approach to the hazard analysis > 7.4.4. I suggest that current presentation is one interpretation which meets the requirement. I have no doubt that there are others.

and all other hazards are controlled by PRPs?

To rephrase, what is a CP ? Your guess is as good as mine ? Maybe better. :smile:

Regarding yr later queries, I incorporated what seemed to be the majority opinions from a literature search. As usual, the unanimity was not 100%.

I feel I should also mention that without the motivation/input provided from Simon and Yourself, this project would surely never have gotten off the ground, never mind reached a result. :thumbup: :clap:

Best Rgds / Charles.C

PS (added) - Mention was made earlier and in my Excel haccp analysis to Caz’s assistance. The (traditional) haccp plan for yoghurt which she contributed is repeated below. Thanks again Caz!
Attached File  COM-HACCP-001.xls   254.5KB   210 downloads
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#87 Tony-C

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

Dear Tony,

IMO, yr comments are an excellent demonstration of the subjectivity of the ISO 22000 standard. And its interpretations. Both these results are familiar to traditional HACCP of course.

I suspect ISO’s resurrection of the “validation” card in ISO 22004, thereby diminishing the quantitative significance of the result of the CCP/OPRP categorisation, was their own attempt at closure (escape?).

Based on this forum, the primary requirement for auditorial purposes seems to be a “logical” approach to the hazard analysis > 7.4.4. I suggest that current presentation is one interpretation which meets the requirement. I have no doubt that there are others.


To rephrase, what is a CP ? Your guess is as good as mine ? Maybe better. :smile:

Regarding yr later queries, I incorporated what seemed to be the majority opinions from a literature search. As usual, the unanimity was not 100%.

I feel I should also mention that without the motivation/input provided from Simon and Yourself, this project would surely never have gotten off the ground, never mind reached a result. :thumbup: :clap:

Best Rgds / Charles.C


No thank you Charles for your contribution :clap: - I am restricted by several conflicts of interest :oops:

I agree that there is no way that you can be criticised if you have something as a CCP which probably isn't or an OPRP that probably isn't - you have decided to have more control!

We may think it is a problem - how do the auditors cope?

Kind regards,

Tony
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