9 replies to this topic

[Janvm]

Hi all,

One of the CCP we have in place today is pasteurisation of our meat stews and sauces. The calculations of the P-value are done based on an internal probe.
Since allmost all ingredients are microbiologically safe, either by nature or by a previous process, management wants to skip pasteurisation and rely on the cooking heat to reach the minimal P-value. This is done to decrease energy usage. The big discussion now is how this is to be measured and how the safety is to be guaranteed:

1. Putting temp loggers in the product during filling and calculating the P-value for every batch, with the P-value as the CCP

2. Validation of the process based on the filling temp. and microbial validation, with the filling temp as the CCP

What would you prefer?

[Charles.C]

Dear janvm,

to skip pasteurisation and rely on the cooking heat to reach the minimal P-value.

Sorry but I don't understand the above. Are the two things not the same ? No idea what P-value means(?), number of decimal reductions as in xD ?

Or is the pasteurisation step done before the main heating step ? Flow chart ??

Rgds / Charles.C

[Janvm]

Dear janvm,



Sorry but I don't understand the above. Are the two things not the same ? No idea what P-value means(?), number of decimal reductions as in xD ?

Or is the pasteurisation step done before the main heating step ? Flow chart ??

Rgds / Charles.C

The P-value for pasteurisation is calculated the same way as F-value in sterilisation, so a number a decimal reductions. After the cooking process, the product comes into contact with the air before packaging. Previously, the packaging was pasteurised, but management wants to eliminate the pasteurisation process by pumping the product at a higher temperature in the packaging, an relying on the residual heat to gain the decimal reduction neccesary for long term storage. I have validated this method and we get very nice microbioal counts.

The big question now is wether to rely on the calculated P-value of the proces by including a temperature logger in one pack of every batch or to rely on a minimum filling temperature neccesary to reach a certain P-value. In the first case, an investment needs to be made in an extensive T logging system, and the batches are blocked until the P-value has been calculated. In the second case, only the filling T needs to be recorded, allowing for an efficient work flow.

[Charles.C]

Dear janvm,

Thks for clarification. Interesting question. It's not my direct area but I thought that yr proposed revised procedure is actually the standard method for hotfill ? (if so the relevant P-value method has surely been published already?)(just speculating ).

i remember another thread here involving pumping of "hot" fruit puree into large “plastic” containers. From memory, the haccp plan was based on a single temperature measurement (somewhere) but whether the critical limit, ie T/t, was based on conventional P-value theory, i don't recall (maybe it wasn't stated).

I presume the “validation” you refer to in yr post must hv already sort of validated that yr new procedure was, at least, equivalent to the old one in the (temperature) operational sense.

I will hv a look for the old thread but I think there are a few hotfill experts here who may give a better answer. maybe wait a little.

Rgds / Charles.C

[GMO]

Not my area either, sorry. I would think from gut feel that the filling temperature would be critical for a long shelf life product especially as the area isn't sterile but whether the pasteurisation before that should also be a CCP, I'm not sure. I suppose my concern is going for one temperature at filling is you have no information about hold time. Have you tried worst case scenario in your validation trials? Ie the temperature is held for the minimum time possible?

In HACCP if there is no published data it is perfectly acceptable to do your own validation trials for a technique.

[Madam A. D-tor]

Dear JanvM,

I used to visit a company making ready to eat meals.
Some of the meals were pasteurised after filling some were not. All were hot filled.
They had validated the process without pasteurisation by T logging research. Stating that the temperature of the product would pasteurise the packaging. However they still received complaints regarding spoilage of these products before shelf life was over. During the audit (> 2 years ago), we assumed that these were leakages in the packing and were focussed on seal checks and leakage checks.
Today, after reading your question, I realise that they should have not validated the process by logging the restant product temperature/time, but by the temperature/time of the surface or the 'air' in the packing.
Now I am wondering how other - as Charles C called them- hot fill experts have validated their processes.

[Charles.C]

Dear janvm,

Below is an extract from a thread on hot-fill. I don’t know what yr process is so the extract may not be relevant. I assume the rule-of-thumb temperature in use was validated somewhere.

An alternative processing method is to heat the high-acid
food product to pasteurization temperatures and fill it hot into jars
for sealing. This popular processing technique is known as “hot-
filling” or “hot-fill/hold.” Hot-filling works well if done properly. It is
important to keep in mind the container must be sealed before the
food drops below the recommended pasteurization temperature.
For this reason, it is a good practice to heat the food to five to 10
degrees above the recommended pasteurization temperature
before filling. This allows time for filling and sealing. For example,
if the recommended pasteurization temperature for the product is
185°F (85°C), then the product should be heated to approximately
195°F (90.1°C) prior to filling.
Keep in mind with a hot-fill process the inner surfaces of
the jar, jar neck and cap must also reach pasteurization
temperatures in order to kill any microorganisms present on these
surfaces. One good way to insure this is to turn each container
upside down and hold it for least two minutes after filling and.....

(see 2nd attachment in this post - http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__38481 )

Rgds / Charles.C

[Scampi]

I voted on filling temp............but only comfortable with that if it's aseptically filled!  Its the right environment for yeast/molds to flourish

[PFTC]

Dear janvm,

Below is an extract from a thread on hot-fill. I don’t know what yr process is so the extract may not be relevant. I assume the rule-of-thumb temperature in use was validated somewhere.



(see 2nd attachment in this post - http://www.ifsqn.com...dpost__p__38481 )

Rgds / Charles.C

 

In case of hot filling of sauces in glass containers; Hot filling at min. CCP temperatures and inverting containers was accepted as CCP by regulatory inspectors and GFSI third party auditors.

[Scampi]

I don't like the idea of hot fill and hold for this type of product at all

 

What's your pH?  What other measures/hurdles do you have in place for product safety?  As FFF mentioned, this would have to be aseptically filled to be safe and/or get you the shelf life you need

 

There is this

https://foodsafety.w...sing a Hot.pdf 

But these time/temps are for products will a pH of 4.1 or below