7 replies to this topic

[suemal]

Hi All
Currently working on our HACCP plans for cooked meats, that is joints of beef etc and cooked chickens, I am looking for the guidelines as to what core temperature we should be acheiving and also the guidelines for cooling times/temp. As the factory is about 3 months from opening we have not subscribed to any associations who might help us, so any info will be much appreciated
Thanks
Sue

[petegilmartin]

Below is a link to cooking guidelines from the Food Standards Agency. Interestingly, 75C is listed as the core temperature. I have just completed REHIS Intermediate Food Hygiene and the EHO's in Scotland recommend 82C as core temperature. Also, you should set your own limits in your HACCP above the guideline, allowing yourself some leeway +/- 2C.

Also in Scotland, 5-63C is the danger zone
Hot holding temperature +63C
Freezing -18C or below

http://www.food.gov....csctcooking.pdf

[petegilmartin]

My apologies. 75C is the core temp. 82C must be reached if re-heating. Cooling is ASAP. EHO recommends 90 mins

[suemal]

My apologies. 75C is the core temp. 82C must be reached if re-heating. Cooling is ASAP. EHO recommends 90 mins

Thank Pete
cooling temps pretty strict, they must have changed last time i worked in cooked meats factory it was something like down to 50 in 2 hours then down to 10 in another 2 hours and so on....we will have to have pretty good blast chillers to get to a temp of less than 5 in 90min
sue

[bibi]

quality or safety?

cooking chick peas need at least 90 minutes to be cooked (boiling during the all process)

what is the critical limit then if it's a ccp?

bibi

[Jean]

quality or safety?

cooking chick peas need at least 90 minutes to be cooked (boiling during the all process)

what is the critical limit then if it's a ccp?

bibi

The critical limit for cooking will be 75oC irrespective of the time taken for boiling the chick peas.

cooling temps pretty strict, they must have changed last time i worked in cooked meats factory it was something like down to 50 in 2 hours then down to 10 in another 2 hours and so on....we will have to have pretty good blast chillers to get to a temp of less than 5 in 90min
sue

In our catering unit, before we had blast chillers, we used the ice bath / ice slurry method where temperature of food was allowed to cool to 20^oC in 2 hours then placed in the chiller where the temperature reduced to 5^oC or below in 4 hours.

[GMO]

Remember that the cooking temperature also has a time associated with it. The food standards agency is a useful source but most of their information is aimed at caterers.

The 75 degrees thing I think comes from lethal rates for Listeria. From my handy CFA (chilled food association) best practice guidelines, http://www.chilledfood.org/ (an expensive but good book is available, at £100):

At 75 degrees, you need to hold the temperature for 26 seconds to acheive a 6 log reduction.

Be realistic. How many times do you see an operator probe something for half a minute??? I would prefer to go for 80 degrees if you can acheive it without drying out the meat, then you only need to hold it for 5 seconds which is a bit more pragmatic.

I remember having more problems with cooling time because there isn't much literature. With any cooling process though, you're looking to control spore formers mainly and any surviving vegetative bacteria. For meat, if you do a literature search probably on Clostridium perfringens growth in meat, you might find something useful although the best idea is to use some literature as a basis and then test it with your product.

I always used to use 4 hours from maximum temperature to below 5 which we used blast chilling for. Anything up to 8 hours, we'd test indicator organisms and if it was a product we'd had previous issues with, it would be automatically rejected over 4 hours.

Edited by GMO, 25 June 2008 - 02:34 PM.

[Charles.C]

Dear All,

Is it safe to eat chick peas which are not 'fully"cooked although having reached a core temp. of 75degC (time seems unspecified??)

Microbiologically, the answer is probably yes (reference species / matrix?) but .....I Have never eaten chick peas AFAIK however have just purchased some frozen peas stated as requiring 3-5min in boiling water. The result was similar to a bullet, definitely a physical risk to the teeth IMO. Perhaps the ccp needs a little thought .

Rgds / Charles.C

added - just saw GMO's nice scientific addendum. The only problem there can be the converse of mine above - the result is something which becomes uneatable.
As noted, L.mono.... is the usual ref. in Europe but I think not in the USA where salmonella (spp?) rules.
added (2) - if it's of any interest I saw this rather neat official summary concerning holding of particularly RTE foods -

http://www.foodstand...or_printing.pdf