40 replies to this topic

[GMO]

Agreed, I'm only into my second year of being audited and I was shocked at how quickly the auditors were ticking boxes going 'yep, yep, yep, yep' etc.. Basically as long as the previous week's paperwork is in place and correct that'll do. Sometimes I actually try and prompt the auditors to look a little further back but they aren't interested. Ticking boxes doesn't make food safe to eat but apparently that's all it takes to satisfy people that all is well

Not all but some.  Sad they still exist.  

[GMO]

An update... if you consider that 2 Sisters have recently published hundreds of audits across their sites in the public domain yet no major issues were found until after the expose...  Then you consider the whistle blowing article had huge indicators of bad food safety culture...  Yet it's an open secret in the food industry that you go to 2 Sisters to kill your career especially if you work in Technical and Operations (why else have they been trying to change that perception outwardly yet obviously not trying to do so inwardly)...  Then I have to say that the answer should be a resounding "yes, of course it's bloody possible!"

[Timwoodbag]

An update... if you consider that 2 Sisters have recently published hundreds of audits across their sites in the public domain yet no major issues were found until after the expose...  Then you consider the whistle blowing article had huge indicators of bad food safety culture...  Yet it's an open secret in the food industry that you go to 2 Sisters to kill your career especially if you work in Technical and Operations (why else have they been trying to change that perception outwardly yet obviously not trying to do so inwardly)...  Then I have to say that the answer should be a resounding "yes, of course it's bloody possible!"

Well I am interested now, send me a PM with some details or a link?

[GMO]

Well I am interested now, send me a PM with some details or a link?

 

I'm not sure who you are but... the recent info on publication:  http://www.2sfg.com/...ltry-audit-data

The select committee hearing where Ranjit tried to claim kill dates weren't being altered: https://www.theguard...l-inquiry-hears

I won't repost rumour here but the stories regarding technical standards were frequent and from many sources including direct from employees I knew.  If you want more info on what they're like to work for, it might be worth a look at glass door. https://www.glassdoo...ews-E523766.htm

[Timwoodbag]

I'm not sure who you are but... the recent info on publication:  http://www.2sfg.com/...ltry-audit-data

The select committee hearing where Ranjit tried to claim kill dates weren't being altered: https://www.theguard...l-inquiry-hears

I won't repost rumour here but the stories regarding technical standards were frequent and from many sources including direct from employees I knew.  If you want more info on what they're like to work for, it might be worth a look at glass door. https://www.glassdoo...ews-E523766.htm

Thank you! I thought you were being sneaky with saying "two sisters".  Never heard of the company 2 sisters before....interesting reads so far!

[kbyrneNC]

I think it's possible - and I completely agree with ganderson64's post on it - but I don't think it's sustainable; at some point, it's going to get too much to handle.

[GMO]

I think it's possible - and I completely agree with ganderson64's post on it - but I don't think it's sustainable; at some point, it's going to get too much to handle.

 

I used to think that way but now the more businesses I see with poor standards, who survive and survive, I'm no longer sure it's true.  I worked for one company who told me to lie to a customer about the root cause to a complaint (while they were still sending product with the same defect).  In 5 years their business has doubled in size.  I saw another who supplied temporary staff to the food industry who were faking the English tests.  4 years later, their business is about 3 times bigger than it was.  Fact is if cheating and lying your way didn't work, people wouldn't do it but generally it does work. 

[FurFarmandFork]

I used to think that way but now the more businesses I see with poor standards, who survive and survive, I'm no longer sure it's true.  I worked for one company who told me to lie to a customer about the root cause to a complaint (while they were still sending product with the same defect).  In 5 years their business has doubled in size.  I saw another who supplied temporary staff to the food industry who were faking the English tests.  4 years later, their business is about 3 times bigger than it was.  Fact is if cheating and lying your way didn't work, people wouldn't do it but generally it does work. 

And there's my depressing quote of the day, thanks GMO XD.

 

Another example, the fact that AIB auditors gave glowing reviews to PCA prior to the outbreak, while some retailers don't like them anymore, AIB is still doing just fine as a CB..

[GMO]

And there's my depressing quote of the day, thanks GMO XD.

 

Another example, the fact that AIB auditors gave glowing reviews to PCA prior to the outbreak, while some retailers don't like them anymore, AIB is still doing just fine as a CB..

 

Crikey!  I hadn't even thought of the CBs role in the Peanut Corporation of America scandal.  When it was so severe the most senior people in PCA were jailed that's surely damning for AIB???

[Simon]

You have to remember an audit is like an MOT (annual vehicle check for road worthiness in the UK), it means was ok at that moment in time against what checked.  An audit is similar.  If there is a complex conspiracy between senior executives of a business to hide and falsify results its not unsuprising they didn't get found out by the certification body.

[TimGoss]

Before I left the SQF facility I was at, SQF was going with one unannounced every 3 audits. Places can become extremely adept at preparing for an audit, and for a solid week every year be completely compliant. Unfortunately, that isn't indicative of how the facility runs on the day to day, only how well they prep for an audit. 

I wonder if anyone is experiencing hits to their scores with the unannounced that have been happening?

[FurFarmandFork]

You have to remember an audit is like an MOT (annual vehicle check for road worthiness in the UK), it means was ok at that moment in time against what checked.  An audit is similar.  If there is a complex conspiracy between senior executives of a business to hide and falsify results its not unsuprising they didn't get found out by the certification body.

True, but given the rodents and tracability issues at PCA, there should have been more findings. Not to be mean to AIB, FDA loves to give out "no action indicated" audits for years, then post outbreak go back in and claim that problems have been happening forever.

[lorlandini]

Food safety needs to become a way of life, not just a yearly event.

[PEACEQUEEN]

Unfortunately it is, but it is also why a large percentage of SQF Certifications fail the following year. I have worked in companies that on a daily basis have the resources in place to run a truly compliant business. From Document Control to Training to Quality Department and everything in between.  When you have the resources in place to monitor controlled processes and records, the mad rush at audit time is whittled down to a few meetings to make sure your ducks are in a row.  When resources are provided to effectively train, retrain and refresh training, you have an employee base with buy-in as to why they have to do things a certain way.  When resources are provided to motivate employees, you build a company that takes pride in their work ethic.  When you actually hold people accountable, you weed out non-compliance and replace with compliance savvy staff.  True compliance at food safety and medical device level is not for the faint at heart and not for the fake it to make it methodology.  It has to be a daily, day to day reality.  I've seen it exist, so it's not impossible. The buy-in starts at the top.  If that's not there, the poor practices and poor culture are merely a reflection of the owner.  A business Owner and their Senior Staff is either authentic and takes pride in the product or they do not. Poor culture does not only exist on the production floor.

[GMO]

True, but given the rodents and tracability issues at PCA, there should have been more findings. Not to be mean to AIB, FDA loves to give out "no action indicated" audits for years, then post outbreak go back in and claim that problems have been happening forever.

 

Trace can be faked, rodents are hard to hide unless the auditor is terrible.

[Leila Burin]

Hello 

Andy_Yellows, you SHALL change you auditor, then....

best regards,

Leila