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Possibility of Flowchart Grouping for RTE +RTC If Unprocessed?


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#1 DRFSM

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 08:00 AM

Greetings all,

 

1st time poster so bare with me...

 

Im reviewing a HACCP plan for a fishy business (no pun intended) and i have a question about their process flows which nobody seems to be able to answer.

 

Part of their business is to BUY RTE and RTC packed Fish products such as shrimp in brine, king prawns and fresh sea fish products both frozen and fresh to which they store then sell on essentially UNPROCESSED.

 

As a PRP these are obviously clearly segregated from each other during storage and transit best as possible. and so looking at potential risks i dont see any reason why they cant be grouped in one process flow /hazard analysis/ just because they are RTE / RTC?? 

 

Of course if any processing occurs by the nature alone such as hot or cold smoking would require individual process flows / groups but where nothing other than storage, picking and re-distribution im sure i can get away with it?

 

What do you think ?

 

i attach an example of a process flow im currently working on..


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#2 Charles.C

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 08:59 AM

Greetings all,

 

1st time poster so bare with me...

 

Im reviewing a HACCP plan for a fishy business (no pun intended) and i have a question about their process flows which nobody seems to be able to answer.

 

Part of their business is to BUY RTE and RTC packed Fish products such as shrimp in brine, king prawns and fresh sea fish products both frozen and fresh to which they store then sell on essentially UNPROCESSED.

 

As a PRP these are obviously clearly segregated from each other during storage and transit best as possible. and so looking at potential risks i dont see any reason why they cant be grouped in one process flow /hazard analysis/ just because they are RTE / RTC?? 

 

Of course if any processing occurs by the nature alone such as hot or cold smoking would require individual process flows / groups but where nothing other than storage, picking and re-distribution im sure i can get away with it?

 

What do you think ?

 

i attach an example of a process flow im currently working on..

 

Hi DRFSM,

 

The attachment seems to have failed to upload.

 

Ability to group different processes for hazard analysis purposes relates to the similarity of their flowcharts and related CCPs.

 

And maybe the FS Standard involved.

 

Offhand, i doubt that you can combine a flowchart for RTE and NRTE processes.


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#3 DRFSM

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:27 PM

Hi DRFSM,

 

The attachment seems to have failed to upload.

 

Ability to group different processes for hazard analysis purposes relates to the similarity of their flowcharts and related CCPs.

 

And maybe the FS Standard involved.

 

Offhand, i doubt that you can combine a flowchart for RTE and NRTE processes.

 

I tried again says it attached :D

 

Yeh i can understand why you cant if for example processing products where they are potentially exposed to each other. but if they are not?  they are never opened? they are simply removed from vehicle stored in their respective areas and then redistributed? 

Attached Files


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#4 DRFSM

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 12:31 PM

Cant see Edit button:/ 

 

Forgot to mention i have not included CCP's on this process flow as of yet. but certainly chilled & frozen temps will be one due to hazards such as listeria and scombrotoxin in fresh oily fish. etc. beyond this due to no processing other than stated storage and distribution its all PRP's


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#5 Charles.C

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 04:00 AM

I tried again says it attached :D

 

Yeh i can understand why you cant if for example processing products where they are potentially exposed to each other. but if they are not?  they are never opened? they are simply removed from vehicle stored in their respective areas and then redistributed? 

 

Hi DRFSM,

 

Thks for attachment.

 

My apologies but i was previously a bit confused by the term "fresh". As you say, I understand that this is only a receiving / storage / distribution (S&D) situation for chilled/frozen goods.

 

I assume that the "picking" stage in yr flowchart does not involve any opening/repacking.

 

Which FS Standard are you working with ?

 

The FS standard may restrict possible groupings, ie where different categories of food are involved.

 

Regarding hazard analysis, maybe have a look at the SQF-related (S&D) haccp attachments in the following 2 posts and the discussion/attachments around them.

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...any/#entry82841

 

http://www.ifsqn.com...age/#entry87788

 

As you can see -

 

(a) the haccp opinions in 2 attachments differ with respect to CCPs.

(The example haccp CCP differences are related to methodology/interpretation of PRPs etc and possibly (as Post 2)  any intended/audited FS Standard.)

 

(b) there seems to be a lack of consensus in 2nd thread regarding the influence of food categories  (or perhaps product relative sensitivity, eg RTE) on the need to have separate haccp plans.

 

Offhand i would personally anticipate that RTE and non-RTE products would not be regarded as being in the same "risk" category.


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Kind Regards,

 

Charles.C


#6 DRFSM

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:24 AM

Hi charles thanks for reploy, im going to check out those links and have a read up.

 

currently im only working with the UK food safety standards on a very basic level. the site is not currently brc certified and there is no plan in future for this however Salsa is something that has been discussed because of a very specific customer.


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#7 Ryan M.

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:06 AM

Not worth the potential hassle to even consider combining.  Your process for the RTE is simple enough to document the flow chart, write up your hazard analysis and summary and be done with it.  You likely wouldn't even have any CCP's, unless you may consider storage temperature.

 

One of the main differences between the two is the vendor approval process.  On the RTE, you better be damn sure your vendors are providing you a safe product and somehow establish a solid approval process to verify / validate this.


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#8 DRFSM

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 10:19 AM

this is what i thought, for the buying storing selling its 1 ccp temperature control. i figure regardless of RTE, RTC live or not live products. PRP of separation segregation etc job done...

 

Only where we process ( fillet gut, debone, de-scale) store / sell or  store / further process to smoked RTE / RTC products would i need more process flows / hazard analysis for those lines.


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